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Might & Guile Loremaster Kit @subtledoctor

  • Cool idea for a kit.
  • Kit description says that it doesn't get backstab multipliers, however at level 1 it has a x2 backstab multiplier.  Could be caused by another mod.  I checked backstab.2da and the one in the override and all the way through change-log always has a x1 multiplier.  I'm guessing based on very old memories that a x1 multiplier is actually a 1+1=x2 multiplier.  Shows up on the character record screen and in actual combat (tested).LoremasterBackstab.jpg.84999b07b6b5d9a701d04b7d47790b85.jpg
  • Refinements HLA integration is seamless.
  • Note that there is no benefit to thief skills in <5 point increments, so the 18 points per level means there are a bunch of points that provide no benefit at each level (you'll get the benefit every other level)

Might & Guile Ranger/Mage

  • Kit description in game doesn't match kit description in readme.  Readme needs to be updated.
  • Animal empathy description on right click is blank.  Just shows ability name.  At Mage2/Thief3 the kit gets a second charge of the innate.  Not mentioned in kit description, but should be.
  • Goodberries also gets additional uses at higher levels that isn't mentioned in the kit description.  Right now the kit description for both Animal Empathy and Goodberries is written very casually and doesn't follow the same style of kit descriptions used in most other mods or the base game.  Just needs to be tidied up a bit.
  • At Ranger/Mage first levelup (thief 2) a bunch of blank lines are spammed in chatRanger-MageLevel1.jpg.d0e25933b78a187e778db95789daef8f.jpg
  • At level Mage2/Thief3 more lines are spammed.Ranger-MageLevel2.jpg.9fdb44edaae9f1068578c8b4c098b49e.jpg
  • This happens at every level up, alternating between 2 or 3 lines getting spammed.
  • Note that there is no benefit to thief skills in <5 point increments, so the 12 points per level means there are a bunch of points that provide no benefit at each level (you'll get the benefit every 3 levels)
  • At Thief3/Mage2 the 2nd level ranger spells are added to the spellbook, but no spell slots are available yet.  Could be caused by a mod, but I'm not sure what file to check for the mage/thief kit spell table in order to see which mod has made alterations.  3rd level spells also become available 1 level before the slots are made available.
  • The druid spells get added pretty quick (all are available by level Mage5/Thief6).  Maybe this is normal for the ranger/cleric ability progression and the ranger spell progression (though I think rangers normally get their spells later).  Doesn't look unbalanced though.
  • More druid spells get added at spell level 4+ which are not mentioned in the kit description.
  • The Refinements HLAs appear to be all the Fighter and Mage HLAs. My suggestion would be to use the Cleric/Ranger HLAs as a basis for which Refinements HLAs to use and substitute out the Cleric HLAs for the Mage multiclass HLAs as per below with Feral Lash mixed in as well:
    Quote

    -Whirlwind Attack
    -Power Attack
    -Critical Strike            (requires: Power Attack)
    -Hardiness
    -War Cry  
    -Resist Magic
    -Tracking
    -Endurance#
    -Feral Lash*
    -Toughness#
    -Energy Blades
    -Dragon's Breath#
    -Summon Planetar          (excluded by: Summon Dark Planetar)
    -Summon Dark Planetar     (excluded by: Summon Planetar)
    -Foresight#
    -Aegis#
    -Death Field#             (Illusionists excluded)
    -Scribe Scrolls#

     

backstab.2da

Edited by Caedwyr
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From Helga NPC mod, the Priest of Haela @Skitia

  • The Hurls Stone ability description in the kit description is not quite correct in the uses / day section
  • Quote

    -May Cast Hurl Stone Once Per Day. Gains one use at level one and an additional use every five levels thereafter.

    The character with the kit gets a use at level 1, then a second at level 5 (only 4 levels after 1).  The correct wording for all the nitpickers out there would be

  • Quote

    -May Cast Hurl Stone Once Per Day. Gains a use at level one, level 5,  and an additional use every five levels thereafter.

    In the description for hurl stone you can also remove the word "direct" from "direct magic damage" as the game just uses "magic damage" for things like Magic Missile or other spells that do untyped magic damage.  Note that the creature is knocked unconscious for 2 rounds, not just knocked down.  This could matter for other abilities which affect unconscious creatures, but not just creatures that are stunned or knocked back.

  • This changes will need to be made in the right click text for the ability description

  • Slight typo corrections and clean-up of phrasing in Flamebolt in bolded section which now reads "The caster is treated as a fighter with mastery in the weapon."

  • Quote

    FLAMEBOLT: The priest calls forth a holy two-handed blade of flame named after Haela Brightaxe's favored weapon. The caster is treated as a fighter with mastery in the weapon. The magic weapon does 1d10+1 fire damage per 5 levels, with a THACO bonus of 3. These are all improved by one every ten levels. The blade acts at a speed factor of nine and lasts for one turn. During this turn, the priest cannot cast any spells.

     

    This change will need to be made in the right click text description of the ability.

  • Same wording correction in the Flamebolt uses/day text for nitpickers.

  • Quote

    -May Cast Flamebolt Once Per Day. Gains a use at level one, level 10, and an additional use every ten levels thereafter.

  • Clean integration with Refinements HLAs.
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Next up Geomantic Sorcerer

  • Tome & Blood does not give the kit the the innate familiar or innate cantrip abilities.
  • Druidic Shapeshift doesn't have a right click description.
  • Doesn't get innate sequencers/contingency (I may have selected the wrong option in order to get these spells as innates for a sorcerer)
  • Gets Refinements sorcerer HLAs in addition to kit HLAs.  They all work, but make the kit even more comically broken than it is to begin with @subtledoctor.
  • Reveal Dispellable Magic innate has the wrong right click description.
  • Check that all the immunities give the right portrait icons.
  • Essence of the Planes summoned orb spells need right click descriptions.
  • Tornado is selectable, I don't think it should be.
  • Elemental Transformation innate needs additional description of the different forms.
  • Dog shapeshift ability trap sniffing needs a detect traps portrait icon.
  • Fix component that lets you change portraits when you shapeshift.

Grey The Dog @jastey Wolfhound Kit

  • See previous comments about being able to put 2 pips in all the weapon styles (Two-Handed, Sword and Shield, Single Weapon, Two-Weapons) due to how Scales of Balance integrates with the kit @subtledoctor
  • Small typo in kit description
  • Quote

      -Movement modifier -1 at levels 1,5 and every 10 levels thereafter.

    There should be a space between the "1," and "5"

  • Quote

      -Gains Tracking Ability at level 7 plus 1 extra use every 5 levels thereafter.

    Should probably read "-Gains Tracking innate ability at level 7 plus an extra use every 5 levels."

  • Quote

      -From level 6 onwards gains Bark: will instill Fear and panic in enemies and bolster own resistance to fear. At later levels this resistance expands to include the party as well as all effects increasing in duration. Extra use every 6 levels.
      -From level 8 onwards gains True Sight: Grey will sniff through any invisibility. Extra use every 8 levels.
      -From level 10 gains Alpha Call: can call on any dogs in the local area to come to his aid.  The dogs called improve as Grey gets more powerful. Gains extra use every 10 levels. This ability does not work indoors.

    Should probably read

  • Quote

      -At level 6 gains Bark: will instill Fear and panic in enemies and bolster own resistance to fear. At higher levels Bark grants the fear resistance to the entire party and all effects increase in duration. Gains an extra use every 6 levels.
      -At level 8 gains True Sight: Grey will sniff through any invisibility. Gains an extra use every 8 levels.
      -At level 10 gains Alpha Call: can call on any dogs in the local area to come to his aid.  The dogs called improve as Grey gets more powerful. Gains an extra use every 10 levels. This ability does not work indoors.

  • This is a completely nitpicky thing, but the level 5 immunity to blindness effect doesn't have a name assigned to the ability so when you use the EEex function to let you inspect spell effects currently active on a character (see here) the immunity doesn't have a name.  Another useful thing would be to have a text message upon level up, something like
  • Quote

    Improved Scent: immunity to blindness

    That gets displayed so the player is better informed of changes to Grey.

  • Grey's Paw (offhand weapon) lists a bunch of classes that can use it, when I would expect it to only say Grey, the same applies to Grey's "War Dog Cannine's Booster" which lists a bunch of races that cannot use it.  I'd probably change the usability text to just "War Dog" or "Wolfhound".  Same applies to his armor.

  • The right click description for the "Bark" innate ability is blank.

  • The tracking description has a bunch of "ranger" in the text.

  • Alpha Call doesn't have any description text when right-clicked.

  • Grey's movement speed starts penalized compared to human characters and only catches up at level 15.  I think you could be a bit more generous and have Grey start at human speed and increase as he levels up because right now, for most of the game it's actually a disadvantage and not an advantage.

  • Grey's low dex and mental stats means that Scales of Balance revised statistics gives him a bunch of penalties on his saving throws.  Might need a custom adjustment if that goes against the intended interaction between the two mods.

  • Grey does not get HLAs (even with Refinements installed).  Since Grey only has BG1 and SoD content so far, this is fine but it could result in a corner case.  I'd suggest that Grey probably needs a custom set of HLAs (or existing ones reflavoured) when/if you get around to doing the BG2 content.

Edited by Caedwyr
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Guest Guest

Caedwyr, a note about the mod from skitia:

For the hurl note, I don't like the way is phrased. Been a while since I read actual descriptions on kit, but... 

As a player, i would enjoy more reading

"Gains another use at level 5, and an additional [...]"

Or ... remove the may cast hurl once a day and sub it with "gains the ability hurl; additional uses are given at 5th level and every [...]"

By the way, you got a very keen eye. I think you're a modder dream.

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For jastey mod, I dont know if she will appreciate my reply, but I would move the abilities description to the end of the kit, rather than the way they are now.

You don't read about barbarian rage on the kit the moment you gain it, but the description is at the end.

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5 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

For jastey mod, I dont know if she will appreciate my reply, but I would move the abilities description to the end of the kit, rather than the way they are now.

You don't read about barbarian rage on the kit the moment you gain it, but the description is at the end.

This made me check and there is a difference in kit description for classic and EE. So far, the Wolfhound kit description is for classic style. Thanks, I'll probably adjust this for EE.

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Vienxay's Shadowmage mage/thief multiclass kit next.

  • Tome & Blood integration.  Gains the innate cantrip ability, but not the innate familiar ability at level Thief 1/Mage 1.
  • For a multiclass kit, I'd recommend being specific about which class matters for abilities gained at certain levels, or just being very specific and writing Mage 5/Thief6.  This makes the kit description very clear.  This applies to Shadow Jump for this kit.  It appears that the abilities are given based on the thief class levels.
  • The +15% bonus to move silently and hide in shadows gets applied after the points are distributed.  Is the bonus intended to be x1.15 of each of these scores, or is it meant to be +15 points in each of the scores?  If the later, I believe it is possible to add the points in a way that they will show up in the level up screen rather than always being added later.  There is a chance that I'm seeing this effect because of another mod that gives non-human races bonuses to various thieving skills based on race.
  • There's some weird overlap with Refinements that should be corrected. There isn't anything broken from the player experience, but there are some HLAs shown that shouldn't be (Death Field and Mirrored Clones are supposed to be mutually exclusive for mage/illusionists) and the selection isn't as clean as it could be. Suggested HLAs for an install with Refinements below:
    Quote

    Shadow Twin (Shadowmage HLA)
    Shadow Maze (Shadowmage HLA)
    Shadow Form (Shadowmage HLA)
    Evasion
    Greater Evasion
    Assassination
    Avoid Death
    Cripple
    Improved Slippery Mind (Refinements Mage/Thief HLA Slippery Mind, renamed for the Shadowmage kit)
    Alchemy
    Scribe Scrolls
    Extra Level 6 Spell
    Extra Level 7 Spell
    Extra Level 8 Spell
    Energy Blades
    Dragon Breath
    Summon Planetar (mutually exclusive for Summon Dark Planetar, Good/Neutral only)
    Summon Dark Planetar (mutually exclusive for Summon Planetar, Evil/Neutral only)

    Currently, Refinements would have to handle the merging since it is normally recommended to be installed later in the install order.

General comments on custom kits and Refinements method of assigning HLAs. @subtledoctor

  • Right now with the default installation method (no .ini edits), installing Refinements on top of any mod which adds a custom kit stands a very high chance of breaking the HLAs in some way, especially if the kit has its own HLAs.  This is because Refinements appears to check what base class the character belongs to and then adds all the Refinements HLAs for that base class to the kit.  In the case of multiclasses it adds all the HLAs for each base class to the multiclass character.  I would argue that this is not the intended/optimal behaviour.  My suggestion is that the generic approach when dealing with custom kits is that Refinements update any base game HLAs with the Refinements version, but doesn't necessarily add the whole set of the Refinements version of HLAs for that class.  This is from what I recall, closer to original behaviour.  You can also of course go on a kit by kit basis and develop custom HLA lists for when Refinements detects the kit as being installed, but it means that Refinements plays nicer with any custom kit.
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Verr'sza Naztharune Ranger kit @Lava

  • Kit description says
    Quote

    - Gains a +5% bonus to Stealth at 1st level with an additional +5% at 7th, 14th and 21st level.

    However, Stealth isn't a skill in BG1/BG2.  More correct way of expressing this would be

    Quote

    - Gains a +5% bonus to Hide in Shadows and Move Silently at 1st level with an additional +5% at 7th, 14th and 21st level.

  • At 3rd level it appears that a +10% bonus to set snare is already given (total of 60% set snares), though the description suggests it should only be a 50% bonus until level 6 (currently a 70% bonus)
  • There is a HLA with the Invisibility Icon and description that is missing a name.  I believe this is L1HAN4.spl and is probably intended to be some sort of greater claws HLA, but is missing the description and icon file 1450464207_VerrszaHLA.jpg.30ee92c887bb654019051835ecb43f8b.jpg.  The rest of the integration with Refinements HLA is seamless.

lul1verr.2da

Edited by Caedwyr
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Warden Kit as part of the Kale NPC mod by @Skitia.

  • There's some extra newlines in the description and other spots where newlines are missing:1449770007_WardenKitDescription.jpg.80262cef9d97b979194e13081081f466.jpg
  • Space between "Hit Die:" and "d12"
  • Thac0.  Last character is a zero (T)o (h)it (a)rmor (c)lass (0).
  • There is inconsistent capitalization.  The whole kit description could do with a second proofread.  Let me know if you'd like me to give a shot at doing this.
  • Ward ability does not have a description when right clicked.
  • Kale's Bastard Sword can't be moved or dropped.  I think this may have been fixed already in a slightly newer version of the mod than the one I have installed.
  • Seamless HLA integration with Refinements.
Edited by Caedwyr
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On 7/28/2020 at 4:47 AM, Caedwyr said:
  • The x2 backstab multiplier doesn't show up on the character record page.  I suspect this might be due to LEUI @lefreut, this has also come up for other mod kits that add backstab as something the kit can do.

This is a game engine bug/limitation. This is not shown in the default UI either. And the information is not exposed to the UI so it can't be displayed.

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On 7/29/2020 at 8:02 AM, Caedwyr said:
  • The character record screen lists the following information that I don't normally remember seeing: Max Known Spells/Level, Highest Learnable Spell Level.  It doesn't show arcane miscast magic % which I thought was something that showed. @lefreut.

Max Known Spells/Level, Highest Learnable Spell Level have been added by one of the previous patches (maybe 2.5?).

I don't remember seeing arcane miscast magic % in the default UI (I'm not even sure what it is exactly :p). As a general rule, if something is not shown in the default UI, it's probably not exposed to the UI so UI mods can't display it either. The UI don't have a direct access to the game files to extract any extra information (sadly).

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Incidentally, I think I figured out the "Person: Normal Stride" messages.  Some items and/or weapons are somehow getting 146 effects that cast the "Normal Stride" spell on the person equipping them.  ("Normal Stride" is just an ability that cancels Quickstride - the equivalent of the "Normal Form" ability you get when you cast Polymorph Self.)  So if any NPC or the like is spawned into your area and has such an item equip, the Normal Stride spell will be cast, and the combat log will report it.  Damned if I know why this is happening.

EDIT - okay I glanced at the code, and it is actually intentional - the effect is just overbroad.  The idea is, Quickstride should no stack with Boots of Speed; the whole p[oint of it is that it emulates the effect of Boots of Speed.  If you are wearing the magical boots, then you don't need to use the ability.  Boots of Speed, in other words, give you permanent Quickstride while you wear them, and they should not stack with an ability that they are already applying.  So I have them simply cast Normal Stride to cancel Quickstride, and use opcode 206 to stop you casting it again while you are wearing the boots.

Problem is, the code looks for any items that grant you a speed boost, and I guess there are a ton more such items than just the Boots of Speed.  I found this out because I was looking at doing a Planetar modification and I was looking at the Planetar's vorpal sword, and noticed that it casts Normal Stride upon being equipped.  Then I put it together.

So I need to refine that.  Maybe try to reduce the items that cast it (limit it to those with the 'droppable' flag, for a start), and maybe try to limit it to wearers who actually have Quickstride active.  That would entail applying some kind of marker with the Quickstride ability - probably a proficiency bit or a spellstate. Then the item equipping effect can use 326 instead of 146, and the spell won't fire on all these people who don't actually have Quickstride.

So, there's a fix on the horizon, when I can get to it.  And in the meantime, consider this confirmation that, while annoying and mysterious, those messages are 100% harmless.

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On 8/1/2020 at 11:52 AM, Caedwyr said:

Next up Geomantic Sorcerer

  • Tome & Blood does not give the kit the the innate familiar or innate cantrip abilities.
  • Druidic Shapeshift doesn't have a right click description.
  • Doesn't get innate sequencers/contingency (I may have selected the wrong option in order to get these spells as innates for a sorcerer)
  • Gets Refinements sorcerer HLAs in addition to kit HLAs.  They all work, but make the kit even more comically broken than it is to begin with @subtledoctor.
  • Reveal Dispellable Magic innate has the wrong right click description.
  • Check that all the immunities give the right portrait icons.
  • Essence of the Planes summoned orb spells need right click descriptions.
  • Tornado is selectable, I don't think it should be.
  • Elemental Transformation innate needs additional description of the different forms.
  • Dog shapeshift ability trap sniffing needs a detect traps portrait icon.
  • Fix component that lets you change portraits when you shapeshift.

Addressed several of these in my update of the mod to version 8 (to be released soon).  Remaining issues still outstanding.

Quote
  • Tome & Blood does not give the kit the the innate familiar or innate cantrip abilities.
  • Doesn't get innate sequencers/contingency (I may have selected the wrong option in order to get these spells as innates for a sorcerer)
  • Gets Refinements sorcerer HLAs in addition to kit HLAs.  They all work, but make the kit even more comically broken than it is to begin with @subtledoctor.
  • Tornado is selectable, I don't think it should be.

Of these, I'm actually okay with the Tornado being selectable and targetable.  If players want to use it as a target point for aoe spells then that is fine with me.

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