Criticism of SCS mod

[polytope]

@DavidW Regarding Maze, you've included a console option to prevent Mazing the protagonist but I don't think it's working as intended, the SSL block is as follows:

IF TRIGGER
        IgnoreBlock(IsBG1Only)
	RequireBlock(Indiscriminate)
	TargetBlock(EnemiesInOrder)
	TriggerBlock(Maze|SpellTurn|MR|Helpless|SIConjuration)
	Range(scstarget,6)
	OR(2)
		InPartySlot(scstarget,1) // isn't Player 1
		Global("DMWWMazePlayer","GLOBAL",0)
	/*slowspell*/
THEN DO
	Action(Spell,WIZARD_MAZE|150|50)
END

This returns true - the Maze spell is cast - if the Global Variable "DMWWMazePlayer" is unset and/or if the target is the protagonist, in other words it will still be cast on a solo character regardless of what the player does with the console. Maze is also defined as a "slow" spell although it's actually rather fast, it has a casting time of three segments.

I think the solo-friendly block should look as follows:

IF TRIGGER
        IgnoreBlock(IsBG1Only)
	RequireBlock(Indiscriminate)
	TargetBlock(EnemiesInOrder)
	TriggerBlock(Maze|SpellTurn|MR|Helpless|SIConjuration)
	Range(scstarget,6)
	OR(2)
		!InPartySlot(scstarget,1) // isn't Player 1
		NumInPartyAliveGT(1)
THEN DO
	Action(Spell,WIZARD_MAZE|150|50)
END

 

[DavidW]

22 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Charm does as well.

I'm less concerned by that. Charm actually ought to end your adventure, whereas as Ludwig says, Maze on a solo character is just a time-out. (Also, Charm gives a saving throw.)

[DavidW]

@polytope: yes, clearly something wrong there, thanks.

[Bartimaeus]

44 minutes ago, DavidW said:

I'm less concerned by that. Charm actually ought to end your adventure, whereas as Ludwig says, Maze on a solo character is just a time-out. (Also, Charm gives a saving throw.)

Also, it, as well as a couple of other things like feeblemindedness and death effects, have good counters: Maze/Imprisonment do not (and yeah, Maze isn't supposed to kill to begin with).

[Splicer_777]

I've tried uninstalling/reinstalling but the mod permanently broke the text in this game. A lot of the random floating dialogue, as well as the +1 ammo and various high-level items and spells all have their description boxes showing totally random quotes from all over the game, it really is a mess. For example I can't read the description for a spell called "Mantle" so I have no idea what it does. Being unfamiliar with so many high level spells because the text is jacked up has compromised my ability to finish the game.

 I think I closed the SCS install program halfway through and there's no way to reverse the damage.

Anyways I'm almost done with the game, but I really had to cheat towards the end.

The real problem is that I can't see the status of the enemy buffs and stats so I have no idea which spells I'm countering. Does this just take a massive amount of metagaming? I can't keep track of the layers of different protection spells and the various removal spells like Spellstrike, thrust, etc. don't even seem to work , it is overwhelming and frustrating to deal with, I can't really try to figure out if I'm not having any fun at all and keep wanting to scream in frustration. So I'll just cheat because I can...

As a new player to the series I wish I skipped Dragonspear because you can tell all of Beamdog's writing additions don't really fit in with the original game and were unnecessary. Getting through SoD -- so much filler gameplay -- was exhausting that I am so burnt out now at the end of ToB. I should have skipped the Beamdog stuff to get the authentic Baldur's Gate experience.

I'm taking on Melissa final boss tomorrow, might switch to Easy again, because I've spent 6 hours on boss battles before... I need to finally retire from this game.

But I still prefer the mystifying difficulty and convoluted spell/item system to the way they make RPGs now, where there is no challenge whatsoever. 

I think I'll move on to Daggerfall Unity, I can't get enough of these ridiculous old RPGs

oh and I never played Planescape either

Edited July 5, 2020 by Splicer_777

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Splicer_777 said:

but the mod permanently broke the text in this game

Nope. I have the mod installed (plus 110 other ones) and the text is fine. You broke the text when you shut down the installer. The right thing to do after that is to start over from a completely clean reinstallation of the game - not to try again installing mods on the now-broken game. 

That’s not your fault - this game is as old as the hills, and wasn’t built with modding in mind, so the tools are unusually finicky. But, neither is it the fault of this mod, which works fine when installed correctly.

1 hour ago, Splicer_777 said:

The real problem is that I can't see the status of the enemy buffs and stats so I have no idea which spells I'm countering. Does this just take a massive amount of metagaming?

To some extent, yes. More specifically, you are meant to play the game unmodded a time or three, with the 266-page manual open next to your keyboard. And once you have mastered all the mechanics, only then install SCS which is like a test of how well you really mastered them.

Some people get a kick out of jumping right into games on the hardest difficulty, but BG2 doesn’t reward that. Playing Insane with SCS your first time out is just asking for frustration. (Even moreso if you bork the game text beforehand )

[Jarno Mikkola]

18 hours ago, Splicer_777 said:

I think I closed the SCS install program halfway through and there's no way to reverse the damage.

There is, you need to uninstall the game and then remove the game folder, as this will remove every trace of the moded content from the game, and then just reinstall the game back, then reinstall the mods and you are done. Well, except you need to start a new game of course.

 

16 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

That’s not your fault .... But, neither is it the fault of this mod,

Then who's fault is it ? ps, it's the users.

 

16 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

this game is as old as the hills,

Right, you know, I live near a hill that's quite recent, it was formed during the last iceage, which was about from 115 to 11 -thousand years ago, so please excuse me if I don't believe you quite that easily. Cause you got yourself some aliens if you say that there was a computer then.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Jarno Mikkola

[Guest Seus merdas]

Mod is broken. Says it plays fair. Fair my ass. EVERYONE is higher level than you. 
Dispel magic is a joke. You always get dispelled, but unless you have an inquisitor in your party, FORGET ABOUT dispel magic. It wont work. EVER. 
Stop pretending to be a modder. Whoever created SCS is just toying with everyone who really likes BG.

[Bartimaeus]

lmao

[Sir-Kill]

Well said, an orator for the times

I too had install hangups. forced closed the installer tried again and low and behold my install was screwed. Re-install time

If I ever try this again, I'd like to know because it does look interesting.

Just now I looked at the online readme with Ctrl+f I did not find that this mod will take a very long time to install, I realize that it is complex but just how long does this usually take? (mine took well over 8 mins of just sitting there, got up did some dishes or such, came back no change)

ssd, 16 gb ram, quad core, win 10 non-EE

Edited March 8, 2021 by Sir-Kill

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, Sir-Kill said:

ssd, 16 gb ram, quad core

Of which a single core and a single thread can be used to install/do stuff, and RAM, erhm, up to total of 2000 MBs, as it can't use the extended memory access or what ever it's name was beyond that limit. The installer being a CMD.exe routine and all that stuff, it opening hundreds of .bcs files, converting them to .baf files and then editing them and then reconverting them backwards using the games libraries... it involves a lots of cross bit checks that a computer even today is not really that efficient at. Cause it's build for scale at reading and not presision at writing.

On 7/1/2020 at 5:47 PM, DavidW said:

I'm less concerned by that. Charm actually ought to end your adventure, whereas as Ludwig says, Maze on a solo character is just a time-out. (Also, Charm gives a saving throw.)

Coming back to this year late... hmm, and how would that end the game ? The lich just anhilates the player char by their charisma... right. In these rules, the Charm effect should give a save throw after each damage that is applied to the charmed creature. And I would expect the more sevear the damage, the more easier the throw should be.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jarno Mikkola

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, Sir-Kill said:

I realize that it is complex but just how long does this usually take? (mine took well over 8 mins of just sitting there, )

All by itself? Maybe 20-30 minutes. With a hundred other mods installed beforehand? Could be upwards of 2 hours. Which is quick - back in the days of v28 and earlier, it was more like 6 hours. 

It’s no less true for time than money, you get what you pay for. 

[Sir-Kill]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

All by itself? Maybe 20-30 minutes. With a hundred other mods installed beforehand? Could be upwards of 2 hours. Which is quick - back in the days of v28 and earlier, it was more like 6 hours. 

It’s no less true for time than money, you get what you pay for. 

Ah, thanks SD. Well 8 mins. was not hardly enough then. Would be nice to see a warning here in big bold print.

"THIS THING IS A BEAST AND WILL TAKE..." heh something like that :)

[suy]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:28 PM, Bartimaeus said:

IIRC, SCS mages will absolutely refuse to cast Imprisonment on the main character due to there not being any decent counter to the spell and it ending the game immediately - suppose Maze suffers from the same problem if you're solo-ing.

Since this has been bumped a bit, let me add that a nice idea from The Bigg Tweaks (tb#tweaks) is to make Imprisonment a "permanent maze". Seems to be able to patch SCS' DMWWImprisonPlayer checks on scripts, but I've not tried it myself. Worth to mention, I think.

[Bartimaeus]

SR does the same, but it has its own problems, like not being able to leave the current area - meaning you have to kick them out of your party anyways unless you happen to have a Freedom on you.