Caster kits with alternative spellcasting rules

[subtledoctor]

EDIT - I suppose I will make this thread cover my various mods that change the spellcasting system(s). The first such mod I posted as s standalone kit is the Mana Sorcerer. 

That kit starts out as a basic Sorcerer, and you have an innate ability that allows you to switch from casting spells with a certain number of spell slots per level, to casting by spending Mana Points.  The number of Mana Points maxes out at 99, so this gives you a fewer total number of spell levels to cast, but on the other hand it allows you to spend points on spells of any level, whereas a normal sorcerer can only spend 1st-level slots on 1st-level spells, and 2nd-level slots on 2nd-level spells, etc. So it trades a bit of overall firepower to reach maximum flexibility.  (It still learns spells just like a sorcerer; so the kit is similarly limited by the number of known spells.)  Also, as of v0.6, you get an out-of-combat ability to recover some Mana Points that you have spend earlier in battle. 

Compatibility: the Mana Sorcerer mod is only for EE games, v2.5 or later.  This should be installed immediately after Tome & Blood in your install order.  Given enough time and motivation, at some point I might expand this to be a spellcasting option for any sorcerer kit, instead of just the trueclass sorcerer.  But that will take a fair amount of effort and complication, so don't hold your breath.

You can download this Mana Sorcerer kit over here

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Here is another wizard kit, based on a version of the "Arcanist" class - specifically modeled on the one described here.  In short, this kit can learn spells from scrolls like a wizard, then 'prepare' a certain number of those spells each night, and then after resting can cast the prepared spells spontaneously, like a sorcerer.  I think it is basically the way wizards cast spells in 5E.  (I think - I've never played 5E.)  This is precisely like the way Revised Bards cast spells in the Might & Guile mod; the main differences are 1) this is single-class and so advances faster, and 2) this kit can use 8th- and 9th-level spells, and 3) this kit has more spell preparation slots. It has one fewer casting slot than a vanilla sorcerer - so the number of casting slots should more or less match a Dragon Disciple.

This is probably strictly superior to the vanilla mage; it is not meant to be balanced in that way, but is more like a convenience tweak, giving you a variant way to learn and cast spells if you feel like it.  This might finally be how you can roll up a wizard Charname who is superior to Edwin!   For good game balance, I recommend pairing this with Tome & Blood's Revised Specialists... then specialist wizards will have more perks to go along with their old-fashioned Vancian casting.

Compatibility: the Arcanist mod is only for EE games, v2.5 or later.  This should be installed immediately after Tome & Blood in your install order.  (Maybe it could/should be folded into Tome & Blood... I'll wait to hear what @Aquadrizzt thinks.)  If you also use Might & Guile Revised Bards, you MUST use MnG v4.8 or later for full compatibility between the two mods.

You can download this Arcanist kit over here

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We have various other mods that could fit in this category - for instance, the 'Revised Bards' component in Might & Guile allows its new multiclass bard kits to cast spells just like the Arcanist described above.  And Faiths & Powers v0.79 and later has an option that allows any cleric kit to learn and cast spells like a sorcerer or shaman instead of using the traditional Vancian system.  And Will to Power creates a 2E-inspired points-based psionics system for multiclass cleric kits.  But those changes can be discussed in the respective mods' forum threads.

 

UPDATE: these two kist have been folded into the Tome and Blood mod in order to more fully integrate them with that mod's other systems - like switching out known spells, cantrips, revised Find Familiar, revised Spell Sequencers, ability score-cased bonus spell slots, and more.

Edited September 10, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Caedwyr]

This looks pretty cool.  I will try adding it to my secondary testing install.

[Caedwyr]

One minor thing right of the bat.

1. The weidu executable is called setup-ManaSorc.exe.  It should probably be setup-d5_arcanist.

[subtledoctor]

Whoops! Shows how fast I was setting up the Github repo. Will fix. 

Meantime, people can just rename the file, as above. Thanks for the catch @Caedwyr

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
Should this Arcanist kit be formally part of T&B as an option?

[subtledoctor]

Maybe. But it doesn’t really matter. 

[Caedwyr]

A general question, are you familiar at all with the Spheres of Power systems for the Pathfinder system?  It's a spell system that limits casters to have power progression closer to the martial classes, however the advantage of using the system over the default magic system is it lets you do some really cool things with each class if you invest enough into the build.  It strikes me that there's some potentially interesting things that could be done with such a system inspiring a some variant kits for BG2.

[Endarire]

@Caedwyr
Having played a D&D 3.5 campaign where some characters were Spheres users and others were the default classes, the Spheres users were normally very specialized in what they did.  A Spheres-based mind controller can dominate and charm units from an early level (4ish), but can't do much else.

[Guest Lucky]

Wow, an Arcanist in BG, my dream come true! A bug though, the arcanist's quick spell slots on the action bar don't work.

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, Guest Lucky said:

Wow, an Arcanist in BG, my dream come true! A bug though, the arcanist's quick spell slots on the action bar don't work.

Not a bug, a sad technical necessity. I guess I neglected to mention it in the “readme.”

[Cahir]

Hmm, this Arcanist class is very tempting. Almost so tempting that I consider switching my Dragon Disciple to this one.

[subtledoctor]

On 7/30/2020 at 3:30 AM, Cahir said:

this Arcanist class is very tempting.

I really want to see what people think of it.  I don't recall whether @Caedwyr has it installed but I hope so because he is giving amazingly good feedback.

Meanwhile, here's a fairly radical idea as to how to treat these things, rather than just proof-of-concepts: turn this into a full overhaul of the spellcasting system.  Change all wizards, bards, clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers to use the Arcanist system of preparing certain spells but casting prepared spells spontaneously; and change all sorcerers and shamans to use the mana point system and thus maximize flexibility by abolishing the difference between spell level slots.

It might be a bit jarring, in that there will be a number on spell icons that means different things for each class - how many times you can cast the spell in the Arcanist system, and how many points you have in the Mana Sorcerer system.  But OTOH this already happens now - in my game sorcerers and some priests use the former system, while Mana Sorcerers and psionicists use the latter system, and it has not bothered me.  I've barely even noticed it.  They both seem fairly intuitive... but again, I'd love to hear more players' opinions on this.

Mana Sorcerers (and thus all sorcerers, in this proposal) are also at a bit of a disadvantage vs. Arcanists (and thus all wizards, in this proposal).  Mana Points let you go nova by using e.g. 1st-level spell slots to cast  9th-level spells.  But the UI limit of 99 points means they will have fewer spells to cast overall and will need to rest more often, if they do go nova.  (They will need to rest less often if they use their points for mostly low-level spells... but in mid/late BG2 that is not very effective.)  The current Mana Restoration ability lets them recover some mana points between fights - one point per spell cast previously - but maybe it should be buffed?  Maybe it should give you back half of the mana points you previously spent?  Then a high-level Mana Sorcerer could, say, spend 40 points in one fight (60 points remaining), then get 20 back (now 80 remaining); spend 40 points in another fight (40 remaining), then recover 20 again (60 remaining).  If you spend about 40 points per fight, that lets you engage in four major battles without resting, before your reserves start to really dwindle.  If you spend more than 40 per fight, that might drop from four battles to three.  That seems... almost too good?  Not sure.  Again, would love feedback from actual players.

[Caedwyr]

I will continue going through all of the kits from your mods I have installed in my current game and providing similar types of nitpicky review, no worries.  The arcanist is on that list, though I took the Mana Sorcerer off the current install as it was a bit too janky for the type of install I am aiming for right now.  I get why the selection is done through innate abilities, but for immersion purposes I'd almost prefer if it was done through an in-game dialogue where someone teaches CHARNAME or NPCs how to become a mana sorcerer if it isn't something you can specifically select during character creation. IMMERSION!!

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

 prefer if it was done through an in-game dialogue where someone teaches CHARNAME or NPCs how to become a mana sorcerer if it isn't something you can specifically select during character creation. IMMERSION!!

That would not be hard to do.  I just haven't bothered since this is still a proof-of-concept.  As you can see from my last post, I'm still trying to decide what exactly to do with these new mechanics.  If it's just going to be one kit, then I can make it a kit selectable in the menus.  OTOH if it is going to be a broader class change or casting style option, that would of course be implemented differently. 

Aerie is the only traditional caster in my party right now (even the paladin is casting spells spontaneously) and I am being sufficiently annoyed that I am getting motivated to make the Arcanist system more widely available.  When you only have one memorization of some utility spell left, like Breach, and it gets canceled because the target goes invisible for a split second?  SUPER aggravating.  If I could cast my memorized spells spontaneously, that wouldn't be an issue - you don't lose Breach, you just lose one 5th-level slot.

[subtledoctor]

Dammit, I'm trying to update the Arcanist but running into a lot of walls.  This kit is very complex; to make it work seamlessly at the beginning of the game, a bunch of stats need to be set and immunities applied and an invisible creature needs to be summoned to process a script.  Sometimes this just... doesn't work.  Something about how some kit abilities get processed before the game clock starts to run, means they won't work; but you can't try to delay it, because kit abilities with timing mode 4 are prone to not working.  The current state is: sometimes everything gets initialized and you start with everything in place, ready to go.  But sometimes things are not in place; in this case you use the "initialize" innate ability with a book on a white background, and then everything will be set properly and you can play.  This is probably as good as it can get.

But then I fell down a whole different rabbit hole: I found that 'bonus spell slot' items like the Ring of Wizardry are not working as I thought they were. And now I cannot for the life of me figure out a way to make them work.  The problem is, we need to track spell slots for each spell level using something in-game, exposed to opcodes (so, no local variables).  The way I do it is to set a proficiency to the number of spell slots you have.  Say you are a level 2 sorcerer with four 1st-level slots and your known spells are Shield and Spook.  I replicate that by setting a proficiency to 4.  When you cast Shield it reduces the proficiency by 1, then checks the value of the proficiency (3), then gives you 3 instances of an innate ability that casts Shield and 3 instances of an innate that casts Spook.  Cast one of those, and it reduces the proficiency to 2; cast another spell and it reduces the proficiency to 1; cast one more and now your proficiency is at zero pips.  The system checks your proficiency (0), and gives you no innate abilities.  You are at zero "spell slots," and you have no spells to cast, so nothing can go wrong.

While-equipped slot bonuses throw a major monkey wrench into that.  A bonus spell slot would increase your proficiency to 5; cast a spell 5 times and now it is zero.  Remove the item and the bonus goes away, so now your proficiency value is negative.  The next time it recalculates how many spells to give you, it will get screwy and give you the wrong number.  I cannot figure out a way to avoid that.  It's driving me crazy.  I have an excellent method to reproduce sorcerer-style spontaneous casting... but it doesn't work with bonus spell slot items.  And I feel like bonus spell slot items are a MAJOR part of the game!  I can't just change them to have some other function!

I feel like I might be able to finagle a way, if I could figure out how to set a 318 effect to the condition of having zero slots.  But it's not a matter of checking for a zero value; 2nd-level spells use the second byte of the proficiency, so that particular value might be bit-equal to zero (0 << 8), but you might still have 1st-level slots in the first byte of the proficiency.  (Proficiencies have four bytes.)   I tried using '9' as the relation in  SPLPROT.2da (no bits in common) but that didn't seem to work.

Sigh.  This is very frustrating.