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[Mod release] Valen EE - A rewritting of Valen NPC mod for Enhanced Edition


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@Hellmouse on a related note - how about you write an own Valen mod?

I appreciate and respect Weimer's Solaufein mod for what it is - the first NPC mod and the reason WeiDU was developped. Nevertheless, I didn't agree to his characterization so I wrote another one.

With a romance etc. it sounds you have not only a very own characterization of Valen in mind but also some content you could put into an own NPC mod. You'd have to create and write the exisitng content (cre file, NPC banters, non-romance dialogues with the PC) anew of course, but then you could do with the character whatever you wish without fearing it will be rejected.

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So the best solution would be to just make this mod an addon to the original one? Like to play it one needs to original version.

Did Weimer wrote a significant amount of content for Valen? It has been a long time since I played it. I only recall it availing Valen to be recruitable.

Still...isn't Valen an original BG2 character? She was not created by Weimer.

So if someone wanted to start Valen from scratch without using any of Weimer's resources then I see no need to get his permission. Getting in contact with modders who had long left modding will be almost impossible.

IMO if you actually plan to use Weimer's version of Valen and expand it then write on top of the mod that Weimer is the one who provided the content upon which you improve the mod plus mention which stuff are you adding or changing. And that you will remove it if Weimer asks you to do so.

Best to just go either via the add on route or making your own Valen mod from scratch I think. A separate add on to require the original Weimer mod or your own version .

Really looking forward to it!

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@jastey here is a "technical bugfixing update" as you suggested https://github.com/hellmouse/valen/tree/v0.0.1 . I took the original Weimer's code and commit all the modifications from there. I also made a changelog file to sum up everything, if it's easier for you. 

I did'nt change any of the dialog or script, just the installation and some ressources (ids and portrait) to make it compatible. Also, there is the "priest" component issue. This component makes all the non evil priest hostile to the party (and even some non priest, because it simply uses a very broad regexp) which can break the game (there is a conflict at some point in Dorn quest for instance and they may be many other with NPC / quests mod). Rather than modifying this component, I just made it optional during the installation so the player can skip it if it breaks their game.   

 

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@jastey about your suggestion of making my own Valen Mod, I guess this a grey zone. I would be glad to do that (even it would require a significant amount of time) but one could still argue it is copying the original mod idea even if the code and the characters are different. Even written from scratch, it would have similarity with the original mod (at least, making the Valen NPC joinable as an evil Vampire thief).

I don't know what your "honor code" exactly says about that case but, as rewriting from scratch requires significant extra amount of time and work, I won't start on this unless this seems ok for everybody in the community.  As you suggested, I will also try the PocketPlan group to ask thier opinion about it.

Edited by Hellmouse
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@Hellmouse thanks for the update I will look at it when I have the time.

To the other question: I wrote an own Solaufein NPC mod so I guess that makes it clear that I do not think that "making Valen [Solaufein] a joinable NPC" is a mod idea that is copyrighted to Weimer just because he wrote the first one. It's the same for my BGII Ajantis NPC mod - I do not own the character, it's a BioWare NPC, so anyone is free to write an own Ajantis BGII mod, as long as they do not use unique content ideas from mine (my mod's quests and dialogues).

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Yeah, I'd be interested in your own take on Valen.  Weimer's original mods were good examples at the time, but the writing wasn't really to my tastes.  I'd be a lot more interested in someone's new take on the character that wasn't tied directly to Weimer's version.  You can be inspired by some of the ideas of the previous mod, but you also have a lot more creative freedom to do your own version.  I'd probably skip the update/addon to the existing Weimer NPC mod, but would give a standalone take on the character a closer look.  Then again, there's probably people on the other side who are looking for an update to the classic but may not be interested in something new.

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Sorry for Necro but why was it such a big deal for Hellmouse to try and edit a mod that is for all intents and purposes dead and burried. It's creator can't be reached and hasn't been online for a while, at least according to my research. It's not a billion dollar industry with ideas that warrant secrecy like cure to cancer or reversal of aging. Why is it such a big deal if someone picks up a dead mod and improves upon the original ideas? It's path of least resistance and frankly, the original mod could use a bit improvement here and there.

Edited by GatedDemon
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12 hours ago, GatedDemon said:

It's creator can't be reached and hasn't been online for a while, at least according to my research.

You may wish to put more skill points into research: literally the first entry on a Google search for "Westley Weimer" is his current academic webpage, with a valid email address.

(The broader question is answered by Jastey earlier in the thread.)

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26 minutes ago, DavidW said:

You may wish to put more skill points into research: literally the first entry on a Google search for "Westley Weimer" is his current academic webpage, with a valid email address.

(The broader question is answered by Jastey earlier in the thread.)

I searched Weimer Mod BG2 and the first result I got was, what I assume, is his webpage. Which showcased that 2009 was for all intents and purposes his last active year in BG mod scene, that's 15 years ago. Then there's the comment by Hellmouse that he tried contacting him and did not recieve a reply. But that's not really the key point I'm wondering about here. It's the code of ethics, whatever it is, that prevents a 15 year old mod with an inactive modder from being revived.

For the sake of argument, lets pretend that all of you die in 100 years but this community and game will live on. Why shouldn't someone pick up your dead mods and try to add a small touch here and there? Should one view modifications as some sort of tepestry that can be expanded upon? Don't get me wrong, I understand if modder is active, but I don't see what is such a big deal to do it if the person has gone radio silent.

Edited by GatedDemon
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3 hours ago, GatedDemon said:

It's the code of ethics, whatever it is, that prevents a 15 year old mod with an inactive modder from being revived.

There is no such code of ethics here, and this was already explained in this exact thread.

You are making the mistake of mixing "updating a mod to a new engine, fixing bugs and improve compatibility with other mods and maybe the mod's modularity" with "I can take a mod, do with it what I want and put the result online"*, but these are two different things entirely.

 

*Just to make this clear: I am not saying that the OP did that to Weimer's Valen.

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3 hours ago, jastey said:

You are making the mistake of mixing "updating a mod to a new engine, fixing bugs and improve compatibility with other mods and maybe the mod's modularity" with "I can take a mod, do with it what I want and put the result online"*, but these are two different things entirely.

Fair enough. Then I will proceed by stressing on the "I can take a mod, do with it what I want and put the result online" part of the argument, and ask why it is such a big deal if the modder is gone, most likely forever? Say I want to rewrite Van Hellsing encounter into something more lore friendly that respects ADnD 2e Forgotten Realms Lore, perhaps add narrative encounters and mini-quests that would signal the encounter and also make sense from the scope of that world's original vision. Perhaps add a few lines here and there, and remove a few that do clash with spirit of forgotten realms. I don't plan on making money off this. I don't plan to shit on Weimar either - I'm not gonna plaster my name all over it and lie that this was all me; BOW DOWN YOU MORTALS! I just want to make a few modifications that would make sense, possibly add a few lines here and there, and also limit the power of the character. I'll even state that this isn't my work, it belongs to a dude named Weimar who quit this scene a decade and a half ago, if you want to play original, by all means do - there will be a version available during the installation.

Why is this wrong? Why do I have to start from scratch and write essentially the very same mod with a few lorefriendly addendums? It makes no sense. Not in the context of a dead mod and a radio silent content creator who was last seen 15 years ago.

 

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23 minutes ago, GatedDemon said:

Not in the context of a dead mod and a radio silent content creator who was last seen 15 years ago.

Not that I think it's okay to add unauthorized new content to a mod even if you can't get hold of the creator... but as I said three posts up, it is dead easy to get hold of the content creator. His real name is in the mod readme, a current email address for him is literally on the first hit you get on Google if you search for that name. Several of us have contacted Wes over the last few years to discuss hosting/updating/developing his mods (e.g. me for Ascension). 

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29 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Not that I think it's okay to add unauthorized new content to a mod even if you can't get hold of the creator... but as I said three posts up, it is dead easy to get hold of the content creator. His real name is in the mod readme, a current email address for him is literally on the first hit you get on Google if you search for that name. Several of us have contacted Wes over the last few years to discuss hosting/updating/developing his mods (e.g. me for Ascension). 

Understandable, and thank you for the tip. But....lets assume that he is unavailable, or lets even use a different example, for instance the modder who created "Sheena" or the modder who made "Valerie" (BG1-only), or really anything that hypothetically fits the bill of the scenario I'm trying to paint here - dead and burried mod with a content creator who has not been active for over a decade. Why is this a big deal to try and build upon their work? Is the alternative truly the mantra of simply leaving it be and recreating everything from scratch with your own few addendums?

And forgive me If I'm offending content creators here, it is not my intention, nor am I advocating communist ideology, I'm merely trying to understand the issue of dead content being untouchable by anyone but the original creator even if said creator is no longer even available. Why let it go to waste?

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Right, so Cam's handy guide to maintaining old mods:

  1. Contact the original author and get permission. Establish bounds on what changes they're comfortable with (fixes, new content?). If you can't contact the author...
  2. If it's hosted at one of the main modding sites, post in the mod's forum. The author may be gone, but there may be other folks maintaining it already--e.g. at G3 we regularly update mods with fixes or translations if the original author is gone.

Failing those two, you've nominated yourself as the maintainer. Now we move to stage two:

  1. Keep the mod at its current site if at all possible. Don't take a mod and host it at your home page.
  2. Keep a copy of the original documentation somewhere, ideally in the updated mod itself.
  3. If you're going to add content, delineate original vs. what you've added. Make them separate components if possible.
  4. Don't remove references to the original author or contributors. You can and should take credit for your additions and changes.
  5. Document your changes, big and small. A good changelog is the first stop for players to see if they want the updates.

 

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9 hours ago, GatedDemon said:

I just want to make a few modifications that would make sense

You are totally free to do so - for your personal use.

I have the impression, though, that you insist on sharing the result of your edits publicly. And there is where it ends for several reasons, the main one being that it's not your mod, i.e. not your IP.

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