SubtleMods: 5E Spellcasting Rules Conversion

[RelentlessImp]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:53 AM, subtledoctor said:

I mean, I think it's a bit more than install-order issues... if some mod is messing with TRIGGER.IDS and ruining capabilities introduced in the EE engine, it's probably worth finding out which.

(I'm also surprised that compiling a script depends on something being in an .IDS file... I thought those were just illustrative, not functional. You haven't said what version of the game you are trying to install this on. If it's not 2.5 or 2.6, that will likely cause problems.)

It's 2.6. I figured out most of my issues were related to how late in the load order stuff was; I managed to get a nice, fat megamod load order that makes everything work (you can see it and the madness here).

Question: I assume it's not intentional behavior that a Priest using 5E Spellcasting doesn't get their spellbook updated if they don't select "Change prepared spells" before leveling up, is it? Though using it before leveling any other part of a multiclass runs the script - I appreciate your redundancy there.

Edited September 5, 2021 by RelentlessImp

[subtledoctor]

I have updated the mod to v1.1... this is mostly a behind-the-scenes/"no new features" update which traifies the various semi_spont functions, so now they are truly portable. The updated function library will filter out to the other mods that uses it, though it isn't urgent.

If anyone wants to translate the semi_spontaneous function library, it would be helpful and it is a pretty small job (just 50 lines or so, and most of it is just revised descriptions of Evermemory and Kontik's Ring of Wizardry). Note, that is a distinct issue from translating this mod - though that is an even smaller job.

On 9/5/2021 at 12:46 AM, RelentlessImp said:

I managed to get a nice, fat megamod load order that makes everything work (you can see it and the madness here).

That... is indeed an install order that I would describe with the word "madness." Well, a little bit. I expect you will find a few instances of inconsistency, like an item here or there installed by one of the late NPC/quest mods which should have been modified by IR. That sort of thing. Still, any discrepancies should be minor, and if you got it working then more power to you! Enjoy.

On 9/5/2021 at 12:46 AM, RelentlessImp said:

I assume it's not intentional behavior that a Priest using 5E Spellcasting doesn't get their spellbook updated if they don't select "Change prepared spells" before leveling up, is it?

I don't understand what you mean by "get their spellbook updated."

Edited September 8, 2021 by subtledoctor

[RelentlessImp]

3 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I don't understand what you mean by "get their spellbook updated."

Basically, at a new spell level (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc), when leveling up to that level, the spellbook doesn't auto-populate with their Cleric spells (tested on an F/M/C, Ranger/Priest and a Cleric/Mage). However, if I press "Change prepared spells" before going through the level-up process, it does; and there's enough redundancy in the mod that in a multiclass, if I hit the "Change prepared spells button" before leveling up, say, Mage, it'll fill the spellbook when I go through that level-up process as well, so kudos there on the scripting.

It's likely a quirk with my install, though.

Edited September 8, 2021 by RelentlessImp

[subtledoctor]

12 minutes ago, RelentlessImp said:

Basically, at a new spell level (1, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc), when leveling up to that level, the spellbook doesn't auto-populate with their Cleric spells

Whaaat...?? Very weird. I wonder if it is some hard-coded thing because they have their spellcasting disabled in that moment...?

OTOH I'm pretty sure I tested this. So it might be something to do with your install.  Do the spells appear the next time you use the ability?  Or do you have to wait until a level-up?

[Endarire]

Quite looking forward to a 5e compatible revised specialist component that gives the bonuses for specialization.  (The original revised specialists would no longer do their spontaneous casting of spells in that school, I assume, because the 5e system handles that.)

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Endarire said:

Quite looking forward to a 5e compatible revised specialist component that gives the bonuses for specialization. 

With this mod you already get free spontaneous casting of any spell in your chosen school, without using preparation slots for them. I'm not likely to do anything else with specialists anytime soon.

[RelentlessImp]

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Whaaat...?? Very weird. I wonder if it is some hard-coded thing because they have their spellcasting disabled in that moment...?

OTOH I'm pretty sure I tested this. So it might be something to do with your install.  Do the spells appear the next time you use the ability?  Or do you have to wait until a level-up?

Have to wait for a level-up. Like I said, it's probably my install, but the install works (aside from a thing with Taerom) so it's a small thing overall.

[subtledoctor]

On 9/5/2021 at 12:46 AM, RelentlessImp said:

a Priest using 5E Spellcasting doesn't get their spellbook updated if they don't select "Change prepared spells" before leveling up

Okay, I can reproduce this. It is actually the source of what I thought was a frustrating bug in Faiths & Powers.

And boy, is it frustrating. I don't understand what is happening at an engine level here... I guess the game sees you have no memorization slots, so it doesn't add any spells? Is that how the base game handles only giving you spells that you can actually cast?  I suppose that makes some sense... but I don't know what to do about it. The entire premise underlying this mod's mechanics is that your memorization slots must be disabled unless and until you use the 'Prepare Spells' ability (at which time you get your memorization slots, but your casting slots are disabled).

Only thing I can think to do is create abilities that grant you all of the relevant priest spells, just like the sphere system does but without a sphere system. It wouldn't be that hard, and it shouldn't otherwise disturb the base game mechanics... I have to think about it.

[kaiiak]

@subtledoctor which file do i need to modify to add other spells prefixes? I need to add some spells from other mods as well as private modded one

Edited October 2, 2021 by kaiiak

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, kaiiak said:

@subtledoctor which file do i need to modify to add other spells prefixes? I need to add some spells from other mods as well as private modded one

Not sure exactly what you mean. If a mod adds wizard spells with scrolls to learn them, then they will be caught by the system. For priest spells it only catches what is normally granted by the game - SPPR101-150, SPPR201-250, etc., so it will catch any spells added by the customary ADD_SPELL method. To add other priest spells, or to add wizard spells that have no scrolls to learn from, or to add any spells after the 5E mod has already been installed, I made a function just for that purpose in the semi-spontaneous function library - see the "add_semi_spells" function at line 2023. (Also note there are "free_known_spells" and "free_cast_spells" functions to give bonus access to certain spells to this or that person or kit etc.)

Might & Guile uses these functions to add bard-specific spells to the 5E prepare-sleep-cast mechanics, after the 5E mod has been installed. See lines 4093-4994 over here. Might & Guild uses all those functions; for a Gallant, say, it adds all of the new bard spells to the 5E system with the add_semi_spells function, then its adds generic bardic spells to the Gallant's spellbook via the free_known_spells function, then it gives the Gallant some special free-to-cast spells via the free_cast_spells funciton.

The add_semi_spells function is designed to work on a single spell, so the easiest thing to do is have a list of your desired spells and make a little mod to add them to the system. Grab the semi_spont folder and semi_spontaneous-tpa file from this mod, and put them in a new mod folder. Then the new mod's .tp2 file would look something like this:

BACKUP ~this_new_mod/backup~

BEGIN ~add more 5E spells~

INCLUDE ~this_new_mod/semi_spontaneous.tpa~

ACTION_FOR_EACH new_spell IN 
    ~d5_spl_1~
    ~d5_spl_2~
    ~d5_spl_3~
    ~d5_spl_4~
    ~d5_spl_5~  BEGIN
  LAF add_semi_spells STR_VAR new_spell = EVAL ~%new_spell%~ cast_spell = EVAL ~%new_spell%~ spell_type = ~arcane~ END
END

LAF process_semi_spells END

The ACTION_FOR_EACH list should contain all the spells you want to add to the system (and note you'll need to do this separately for arcane and divine spells, because of that spell_type variable). I'm pretty sure you put the same value in the new_spell and cast_spell functions, since for mod-added spells the same one you would memorize would be the one that you cast for unmodded casting. (Might & Guile uses different filenames for these, since it has memorizable arcane spells that cast divine spells via this system.)

I'm pretty sure that, or something very like that, would work. Might & Guile already does it and in my current install it is working great: bards can prepare their bard-only spells and successfully cast them via this system.

That was probably a little more involved than the answer you were hoping for, but it would be the best way to achieve this.

Edited October 2, 2021 by subtledoctor

[kaiiak]

Wow - thank you for the detailed response @subtledoctor - this is exactly what I needed - basically I have a bunch of mods that add spells (like made-in-heaven) that dont use the SPWI / SPPR standard - I want to add them to the list of spells -  so this is perfect ! . 

I'll give it a try and update here . thanks again !

[kaiiak]

One more question - I already have Might and Guile installed - how critical it is for 5E to be installed before ? what impact will it have installing it last in my install order ?

[kaiiak]

got error during installation :

ERROR locating resource for 'COPY'
Resource [d5zrfsh.spl] not found in KEY file:
        [./chitin.key]
Stopping installation because of error.
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [Change All Casters to 5E System], rolling back to previous state

 

[Endarire]

Where in the install order should 5e casting be?

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, kaiiak said:

a bunch of mods that add spells (like made-in-heaven) that dont use the SPWI / SPPR standard

That’s annoying. Whyever not?

52 minutes ago, kaiiak said:

I already have Might and Guile installed - how critical it is for 5E to be installed before ?

Probably fairly critical. In theory they could work in any order, but I designed 5E Casting to go first and I have only tested it that way. 

14 minutes ago, Endarire said:

Where in the install order should 5e casting be?

See here. After SR, TnB, FnP; and before MnG, FnP_Multi. 

1 hour ago, kaiiak said:

a bunch of mods that add spells - I want to add them to the list of spells

In theory all such mods could add conditional code to make their spells work with this system... but right now that would lead to install-order problems. I could and probably will improve the functions to eliminate such install-order problems... but not soon.

Best thing is to make a big list of all such added spells and make a little mod like I outlined above, and install that mod right after this one, or right after MnG.