subtledoctor Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Which is more less my point: it’s just a poorly-constructed encounter. She could run up to the player and spout some frantic nonsense, and then withdraw but not leave, giving the player a chance to decide what to do. A good DM could easily give players the opportunity; but this dialogue doesn’t. Quote Link to comment
DavidW Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Kahrk's very high power level isn't intentional design, exactly. SCS's code autogenerates scripts and spells based on the creature's level, and Kahrk is marked up as 12th level in the unmodded game. He's pretty much a legal L12 fighter/mage (there is actually a slight double-counting in his APR from his fighter level that I'll correct in the next version). Furthermore, this wasn't invisible in the unmodded game: it shows up in the number of spells he casts (which is much higher than other unmodded-game ogre mages) so I don't think it's a slip - Kahrk is intentionally much more powerful than other ogre mages in the original game. SCS just gives him a script and spell choices that fully realize his stated power. Now, occasionally I've nerfed creatures in this situation where SCS gives them an unusually large power boost, especially if they're on the critical path. But (as I remarked before in a previous thread on this subject), Kahrk is a completely optional encounter which you only get after a dialog that looks something like this: Quote CARSA: this jar caused all my companions to die; it wants me to open it; I won't. PC: Give me the jar. CARSA: No, if I give it to you we'll all die. Run now. PC: Give me the damn jar! CARSA: No! Get away or I'll release the thing in the jar and it'll kill you. PC: We're taking the jar by force. CARSA: KAHRK! If you open the jar, I think you get what you deserve. Quote Link to comment
temnix Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 On 8/23/2021 at 5:27 PM, maus said: How to cast the spell on her? Before the dialogue you have no reason to do this (that would be the same like avoiding the area). And after the dialogue it is too late... nice idea, but not realistic You have the reason to during the dialogue. Ask her, convince her to wait for, say, a day while you rest to memorize Remove Curse or dash to a temple to buy a scroll. Charisma could play a role in this, although that would be a departure from BG's usual way, where stats don't matter. Quote Link to comment
temnix Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 12, 2021 by temnix Quote Link to comment
Jazira Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 7 hours ago, DavidW said: If you open the jar, I think you get what you deserve. 10-year-old myself : Click on tombstone. Angry powerful mage appear to warn and threaten me. 10-year-old myself - ~3 wisdom : Click on EVERY tombstone several times. 10-year-old myself : Trauma. Quote Link to comment
tomasz86 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) On 9/13/2021 at 12:14 AM, DavidW said: Kahrk is intentionally much more powerful than other ogre mages in the original game. SCS just gives him a script and spell choices that fully realize his stated power. He does have some "illegal" buffs, doesn't he? I haven't verified myself, but according to https://github.com/BGforgeNet/bg2-tweaks-and-tricks/blob/master/docs/gameplay.md#just-a-few-selected-enemies, he has "permanent spell turning" in the original game, which I don't think SCS removes, or does it? If not, then adding SCS scripts and improving his spell selection on top of that probably makes him even stronger than anyone has ever intended . Edited September 14, 2021 by tomasz86 Quote Link to comment
DavidW Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. Spell Turning wasn’t even in original BG1 and Beamdog doesn’t add it, unless I’m seriously missing something. Vanilla Kahrk prebuffs with Haste, Pro/NM and Minor Globe, all dispellable normally. Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) On 9/12/2021 at 11:14 AM, DavidW said: If you open the jar, I think you get what you deserve. Fair enough... re-reading this thread the most annoying part of that encounter is that Carsa disappears if you decline the magic bottle. The lightest-touch fix, encounter-wise, is probably just to keep her around. Let her deliver the same dialogue every time, who cares? It would give some more agency to the player in deciding when to have that encounter (this is after all a game where the DM is absent and has delegated their duties to a computer program), without having to viciously metagame things. It might be a tad less “realistic,” but what does that even mean in a game like this? (And I could argue it would be more realistic.) Heck, now that I’ve identified a possible solution, I suppose I can just make that mod myself... it need not be the responsibility of SCS. 3 hours ago, DavidW said: Vanilla Kahrk prebuffs with Haste, Pro/NM and Minor Globe, all dispellable normally As stated earlier, at least in my BGEE 2.5 game, he does have permanent undispellable Haste from an item. I think it would be reasonable for SCS to remove that item and make it a traditional pre-buff instead. (Also if I’m not mistaken his other primitive item-driven “pre-buffs” are in addition to his SCS scripted real pre-buffs, giving him a technically illegal amount of pre-buffing. I think.) Edited September 15, 2021 by subtledoctor Quote Link to comment
DavidW Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 49 minutes ago, subtledoctor said: Fair enough... re-reading this thread the most annoying part of that encounter is that Carsa disappears if you decline the magic bottle. I found that argument persuasive; SCS v34 will address it. 52 minutes ago, subtledoctor said: As stated earlier, at least in my BGEE 2.5 game, he does have permanent undispellable Haste from an item. On 2.5 and 2.6, that item's Haste seems to be dispel/resist=1, i.e. it's dispellable. 53 minutes ago, subtledoctor said: lso if I’m not mistaken his other primitive item-driven “pre-buffs” are in addition to his SCS scripted real pre-buffs, giving him a technically illegal amount of pre-buffing. I think. Some are stripped already (PnM I think). There's a case for stripping the rest (it's not a priority, since it's mostly cosmetic.) Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, DavidW said: On 2.5 and 2.6, that item's Haste seems to be dispel/resist=1, i.e. it's dispellable. Ah, I must have been wrong on that. (TBH I didn't even know that item effects with timing mode 2 could ever be dispelled, regardless of their dispel/resist value.) Quote Link to comment
CamDawg Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, subtledoctor said: Ah, I must have been wrong on that. (TBH I didn't even know that item effects with timing mode 2 could ever be dispelled, regardless of their dispel/resist value.) There were a lot of Set Color effects on items that were set as disspellable that Fixpack (and the EEs) address--imagine being hit with a dispel and the color of your armor or sword changing. Quote Link to comment
morpheus562 Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 I'd personally like to chime in and play devil's advocate here and say that I really enjoy the difficulty spike of SCS Insane Difficulty Kahrk. I always wait to later to trigger this encounter and find it a fun, but brief, fight. Quote Link to comment
Guest Morgoth Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 6 hours ago, morpheus562 said: I'd personally like to chime in and play devil's advocate here and say that I really enjoy the difficulty spike of SCS Insane Difficulty Kahrk. I always wait to later to trigger this encounter and find it a fun, but brief, fight. I already expressed in the past that I dislike it, but just because SCS sarevok is easier (and I tend to think it's due to that dispellable haste). If Sarevok did not have dispellable haste, I would be fine with Karkh in the current status. Quote Link to comment
morpheus562 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 First off, I totally disagree about SCS Sarevok being easier. The way the entire fight is now structured in SCS makes the entire battle one of the more difficult encounters and one of the more enjoyable ones. Quote Link to comment
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