Joining the Iron Throne and Crusade

[Axatax]

Not being able to join either seem like big oversights in the original plots.  I've been thinking about how this could be done, without completely having to turn the story arcs upside-down, and literally play from the opposite side.  I think there's some very good ways to do this.  SoD has a more obvious mechanism to affect this.  You have Tamoko in BG1, and the forest encounter in SoD with Caelar.  You can somehow be "recruited" during these encounters, spend time with the "enemy", and ultimately wreak various levels of havok on the "allied" characters through means such as poisonings/espionage directed at officials such as the Dukes or the commanders in the siege camp.  If the PC was playing a "double-agent"-like role, then that could be a way to easily transition back to the original plot and have the remainder of the game and battles ultimately make sense with a scenario like this.

[Endarire]

@Lauriel
Your Framed mod reminded me about how certain parts of BG1's plot could be reworked to account for a different Chapter 6.  What say you to this?

Thankee!

[maurvir]

Even though I never play evil characters, neutral at best, I would love the option to play as a double-agent. That sounds like it would be a fun way to shift things around.

[Axatax]

I'm playing with Framed, and I could easily see how the PC could return to BG and be the one to sicken Duke Eltan if they align with Koveras and his party in Candlekeep.

 

 

 

[Axatax]

Eltan could actually *want* to be sickened (or give the impression of being sickened), for example, for various reasons to distract from other goings on within the city.  Entar Silvershield is an obvious asshole.  Maybe Eltan felt he *had* to seek protection from the quartermaster for some reason or another (Silvershield aligning with the Throne while the PC is gone).

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Axatax

[Lauriel]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:31 AM, Axatax said:

I'm playing with Framed, and I could easily see how the PC could return to BG and be the one to sicken Duke Eltan if they align with Koveras and his party in Candlekeep.

 

 

 

that's actually what I wanted the PC to be framed for.  But opted for the simpler route.  I will consider this.

[jastey]

I don't see a route where the PC works for the Iron Throne. Sarevok wants the PC dead, not meddle with his scheme of raising war between BG and Amn.

[Ardanis]

Both me and SoD's main writer wanted to let PC side with Crusade, but we got basically told off "nope, no siding, that's not negotiable".

[jastey]

@Ardanis That's interesting to know. It s*cks if ideas get cut for reasons beyond story telling.

What I lack to see is a good reason for a sane PC to go with Caelar. To elaborate, I am writing on a mod that lets the PC be aware of all the pieces of information about Caelar's plans that are already in the game. If everything is found and with some luck, the PC knows at Troll Claw Woods what Caelar wants to do at Dragonspear Castle and what she needs the PC for. I have problems to imagine a ... sane PC to agree to this plan. Unless they always wanted to have hell break lose, so to say. Or maybe they think they could challenge and kill Caelar before it comes to that. But it's really clear that her plan is risky and bound to produce problems that have the potential to make the situation worse she set out to solve. It's outright melagomaniac, not to say doomed.

It's always difficult to transport the power of charisma in such cases. She has xxx followers who basically all know the dangers and still think she can pull this off. This "magic" doesn't work on the PC because the player doesn't want to play a brainwashed puppet that walks with a rabble-rouser just because "they are charmed and can't help it", so Caelar's masquerade always looks rather silly to my PC.

[Isewein]

I don't know, I think it can be enjoyable to roleplay such a character as well. It's easy to recognise the storytelling tropes and warning signs as the uninterested bystander, but history and indeed present times show that it's by no means unlikely for even the wise to succumb to the power of the charismatic.

[temnix]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:28 PM, jastey said:

I don't see a route where the PC works for the Iron Throne. Sarevok wants the PC dead, not meddle with his scheme of raising war between BG and Amn.

What this game REALLY needs is a mod where Charname IS Sarevok.

[Lauriel]

52 minutes ago, temnix said:

What this game REALLY needs is a mod where Charname IS Sarevok.

Oh that's very interesting!

[temnix]

More seriously, a mod where the main character is one of the goons in the employ of the Iron Throne, but also a Bhaalspawn, overlooked by Sarevok. Charname participates in the ambush on Gorion's ward and is sent to intimidate Mulahey into working harder, but ends up having to kill him. Then the Zhentarim approach him to betray the Iron Throne. He volunteers before Tazok to hunt down Gorion's whelp, follows him around and finally catches up with him in the Cloakwood mines, where he helps Davaeorn kill him, but then kills Davaeorn as well and from there begins to pose as the hero of the Sword Coast. The killing of Rieltar and Brunos is also ordered by the Zhentarim, who also wanted to take out the Knights of the Shield. Nice, eh? Inspired by "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead."

Edited September 19, 2021 by temnix

[Axatax]

Being evil aligned has everything working against you in this game.  I think the PC should *always* be evil, (alignment) based solely on his/her Bhaal heritage.  You're the child of an evil God.  So you're evil, and you have to deal with it.  That doesn't mean you can't walk a righteous path and do good deeds.  You should have to fight this urge (if you choose), and this plot line should be encouraged within the game.

It's pretty clear to me, the SoD plot-line is some type of metaphor for the Iraq war and Caelar is supposed to be George Bush.  Maybe I'm reading too much into all of this.  So there's notions of moral ambiguity (or not).  But if you buy into the idea that the PC is inherently evil, then you should be able to do "evil" things, like join the Throne, or in a more philosophically ambiguous position, join the the Crusade. 

Ultimately it's a role-playing game, and one might want to control a character that's somewhat different than their actual persona in the real world.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Axatax

[The Artisan]

This is such an abysmal take I can’t even…