[WIP] Sigil: a shared directory of mods for Infinity Engine games

[Guest Ghast]

17 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Why is anything other than Github under consideration?

"every contribution automatically creates a pull request", &c: how would that even work with Google Sheets? The not-really-options are there to create an illusion of 'collaboration'.

[InKal]

On 9/22/2021 at 2:17 PM, DavidW said:

This is theoretically possible but I doubt it happens in practice. It is extremely difficult to produce new quest content for IE games, at least if you want reasonable production values - it requires mastery of a wide range of skills (AI scripting, artwork, area design, dialog design, actual ability to plot and write) and most individuals only have a subset. So there aren't many high-quality adventures and those that exist are well known.

(Prove me wrong by linking to a 'small, excellent, forgotten adventure'!)

 

[DavidW]

no mod hosted here can be called 'forgotten'

[CamDawg]

I updated EMaD last August, which is more recently than Tweaks.

[UMNiK]

5 hours ago, Guest Ghast said:

"every contribution automatically creates a pull request", &c: how would that even work with Google Sheets? 

It works similarly, but without all the git terminology, i.e. you may copy the shared doc to your own drive and do whatever with it and the owner has the edit history with account names he may look over. I must say, it must be hellish trying to mod these games without access to any internet search engine. Anyway, it's a moot point, as GitHub won despite some worries over unruly forks (the only defence against which is, again, having the legit one be the best one). 

4 hours ago, DavidW said:

no mod hosted here can be called 'forgotten'

Ah, but how bout all the mods from the dead communities, eh? By definition, no one can link a truly forgotten mod, they will have to be rediscovered!  

20 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Feedback

Not encouraging, but whether that's due to forums being populated with experienced mod users or noobs only using the automatic installer/few mods, it's hard to say. Oh well, if anyone wants to post this to SHS/anywhere else anyone might be interested (and able) in collaborating on a potentially always complete and up to date list of mods that does not depend on a single person (for good or ill), they are very welcome to do so (there is not much point in me doing it on a fresh account -  the repo speaks for itself - so whatever street cred anyone is willing to lend it would be more than I got). I reckon I'll hold off on any further edits until there is at least one pull request. In case there are none and this dies on the ground, see (at least some of) you in another five years! I'll adjust my expectations to "a BBS" from "finished BWS" for a nicer surprise (though I'm secretly hoping PI will have surpassed both old BWS and current active efforts in ease of use and completeness by then).

 

[AL|EN]

Huh? I'm on vacation and there is yet another 'modding list' project? WoW. 

@UMNiK

I have skeptical views about such kind of project because the success of it depends on the things that you have no control of it. Please look at previous attempt: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/72166/gitlab-megamod-project-all-the-mods/p1

Now, quoting one of your own GH question:

Quote

How to reliably get modders to contribute new mod links themselves rather than waiting for someone else to list them?

You can't. There is ZERO benefits at the cost of double the work. It's how it is. Face it, accept it and make peace with it. Then try to live on.

To be more precisely: most of the modders uses 3 main forums for announcing the mods: BD, G3, SHS while some modders use other regional forums: forums.blackwyrmlair.net, baldursgateworld.fr, baldurs-gate.de etc. Some other modders even use their own, personal forum/site. When the new mod is published on those forums, that's where people know about new mod, not by monitoring some unknown to everybody GitHub List. Adding new mod into the extra list means twice the work and no benefits <- this is the reason why this wont happen. It's very simple: 1 actions is less than 2 actions.

Relaying only on community contribution is a road to nowhere. IMHO, the only way how such 'mod list' project would success would be to have combined effort of all those forum owners towards this goal and establish automated way to report newly published mods. So individual community contributions could be needed only for some corner cases (mods as attachments etc). And a dedicated webiste with a lot of features for modders that all old websites are lacking. Basically, a nexusmods.com for IE community, without ads and premium.

I"m not expecting you to stop doing what you want but I have no intention of contribution to this project or similar ones that lack strong foundations.

[UMNiK]

@AL|EN As a matter of fact, I have done what I wanted: there are now 0 obstacles to anyone who is interested in a collection of links to mods (rather than hosting the mods themselves) contributing to or remixing Sigil. If the modders themselves don't feel it worth their time to copy-paste a couple links to potentially expose their mod to more people and definitely denote the mod's "legit" location, there is nothing more I can do to convince them than point to examples of other centralised directories. If some mod players would prefer to re-use their own old install logs and start new threads on their favourite forum every few years to try and suss out new mods by word of mouth, there is nothing I could ever do to dissuade them: they are in it for the opportunity to talk with like-minded individuals, not to get the mods and go play them ASAP.

It would be quite a turnaround if the few people running multiple forums for decades would suddenly decide to setup a Nexusmods competitor together (arguably, BWS was the closest thing to it, being essentially a beefier analogue of Nexus Mod Manager/Vortex with a pre-installed links list and presets). In my estimation, there is an obvious missing intermediary of the aforementioned links list (with presets trivially added by forking) between the half dozen or so disparate active communities and the single active and legit mod manager. Anyone who feels the same now has the option of easily (as easy as I can make it, at least) helping bring that list about as an alternative to waiting for some immaculate hosting platform. Apparently, not many do.

[The Artisan]

4 hours ago, UMNiK said:

Anyone who feels the same now has the option of easily (as easy as I can make it, at least) helping bring that list about as an alternative to waiting for some immaculate hosting platform. Apparently, not many do.

NO ONE is waiting for this. Stop putting words in our mouths. Stop trying to guilt-trip us with your made-up problem.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Artemius I

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, UMNiK said:

If the modders themselves don't feel it worth their time to copy-paste a couple links to potentially expose their mod to more people and definitely denote the mod's "legit" location, there is nothing more I can do

"I have tasked modders, who spent their own time to make things I enjoy, for free, with doing more work. If they don't want to be directed by some rando on the internet to take on extra work, then there is nothing more I can do except shade the shit out of them."

6 hours ago, UMNiK said:

As a matter of fact, I have done what I wanted: there are now 0 obstacles to anyone who is interested in a collection of links to mods

I don't see very much "done." But if some player wants to install a bunch of mods that all begin with the letter "A," then great job!    Srsly, you seem inordinately interested in a collection of links to mods, so why don't you just... y'know... make it?

(Also, if you had just done this - even only this much - at the beginning, instead of wasting time threadjacking and throwing shade at people, you would probably have seen a lot of enthusiasm. This all is basically an object lesson in bad PR.)

Edited October 5, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Guest]

Hello,

I add  my list of links:

-Do not follow the order
-Some are not EE,EET compatible.

-Some are not in english

-I hope it is ok to share....

If you think it's worth it, I can create a new post...

 

 

Mod Link.g3.ods

Edited October 6, 2021 by JohnBob
Change

[jastey]

Your linklist is outdated. The repo of Ascalon's Questpack is here.

Ascalon's Breagar: The "Site" link links to GitHub. The Mod page is here.

You list Ajantis BG1 Expansion two times. This is bad anyhow. But it's also incorrect to list it as "Crossmod". Crossmod is content from one mod to another. Ajantis BG1 Expansion is no Crossmod.

And this is really at GitHub, after one of the most respected modders said they do not want to risk the repo-fork desaster of BWS again..

[lynx]

Wherever it would be, it would be simple to steal from, so the platform doesn't matter in that sense.

[jastey]

OK, I think I get why you put Ajantis BG1 Expansion under "Crossmod", since it expands on the BG1NPC romance if BG1NPC is installed. But, it's not dependent on BG1NPC as a mod, the mods don't have to be installed in a cretain order for the content to show, the one is not needed for the other to make sense together. It's just content that will show in case both mods are installed, it doesn't make Ajantis BG1 a Crossmod Mod, so please delete it from that section. Also, the description is not accurate. It adds the BG1NPC Ajantis romance only for classic BG1:TotSC, i.e. the game BG1NPC is not compatible with.

And: one of the links (Ascalon's Questpack) already outdated 2 weeks after the list was started and still being under construction is really, really hilarious.

 

[UMNiK]

Like I mentioned, I'm ready and able to review any and all pull requests and accept any collaborators, whether they result from updated links (Currently, they originate from the most up to date full-ish list I am aware of, Cahir's, after getting his confirmation that they were the best ones he could find at the time. Obviously, a crowd-sourced effort has the benefit of multiple people checking them and easily able to write in the current one once they locate it.) or from the mod authors wanting to clarify their mod's placement (as I have to use my best judgement going by the descriptions, I see "this mod does this if that mod is also installed", I slap it into Crossmods in addition to its main category, since it's not an install order at this stage). Similarly, anyone wanting to take this to completion themselves is welcome to use any existing portion (the only differences from Cahir's list at this point are the categories and descriptions).

However, I really must remind some people that I have much less direct power over their lives than they seem to imbue me with. Please refer to the hidden contents of this post to avoid extra argument laps, which are really getting repetitive at this point. Either you agree that the easiest way to collect, centralise, and keep updated numerous data points from disparate places in the absence of any monetary incentive is a number of volunteers (coming and going) contributing to a neutral silo, in which case all you need do is edit the README.md and create a pull request (make sure to write in the reason for the edit), or you do not agree and may do literally whatever else. I do not intend to combat apathy, just meet constructive action in kind.

Any other concerns would only come after creating a good enough list collaboratively (as any other scenario would be retreading old ground). In future, it might merit adding your mod to it in addition to the mod's hosting location as a matter of course due to being the de facto first stop with an easy way to see what new mods were added when. It might also become a target for "stealing", whatever that might mean in the context of a list of mods for a video game, though I find that somewhat unlikely at this point, as it does require a few extra clicks to steal compared to contributing, so that's a deal breaker right there. At this stage, the only salient question is whether there are enough people who want to contribute to a mod list that does not require them to complete or keep it updated forevermore by themselves. The issues are ready for assignment, collaborators are welcome, I will review any pull requests for some time yet.

Edited October 6, 2021 by UMNiK