Changing starting location of a game

[picollo]

I've been trying to replace starting location of ToB.
If I understand correctly, I should have changed startare.2da. But it doesn't seem to work. I've changed area to my custom location, but character starts in ar4000 (head grove).

When I changed location to ar2800 (suldanessellar), then charname started in ar4000, but the very first thing that happened was dialogue with Elthan, just like I've entered elven city for the first time.
Is there anything else happening at the very begining of game that could transport party to the ar4000?

briefly checked baldur25 for anything referencing ar4000, but I cannot find anything there.

Am I missing something?

[Bubb]

AR4000 is hardcoded into the action that upgrades SoA to ToB, (MoveToExpansion). MoveToExpansion() is always called when entering ToB — if you're starting from SoA a script calls MoveToExpansion(), and if you're starting a new game the engine evaluates STARTARE.2DA, then runs MoveToExpansion(), (that's why you get the glitchy Elthan dialog).

While hacky, your only option might be to have AR4000.BCS move the party somewhere else.

[Jarno Mikkola]

12 minutes ago, Bubb said:

While hacky, your only option might be to have AR4000.BCS move the party somewhere else.

I thing this is what the SCS component does.

[picollo]

2 hours ago, Bubb said:

AR4000 is hardcoded into the action that upgrades SoA to ToB, (MoveToExpansion). MoveToExpansion() is always called when entering ToB — if you're starting from SoA a script calls MoveToExpansion(), and if you're starting a new game the engine evaluates STARTARE.2DA, then runs MoveToExpansion(), (that's why you get the glitchy Elthan dialog).

While hacky, your only option might be to have AR4000.BCS move the party somewhere else.

Huh, that's interesting.  I've even checked the MoveToExpansion in iesdp, but it only mentions change in the scripts, not the forced move. Good to know it.

 

2 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

I thing this is what the SCS component does.

Thanks for the hint, will check how it is handled there.

Edit. Checked SCS, and I don't seem to see any particular file related to ar4000, could you possibly point to something more direct?

Edited February 16, 2022 by picollo

[subtledoctor]

Could you create a whole new campaign, starting in some other area, and then after the introductory whatever use the MoveToExpansion() action?

Give the new campaign the same icon as TOB, and use UI modding to add it to the main screen while removing the TOB campaign. 

All very theoretical, but from what I’ve reading about the EE 2.0+ capabilities, something like that should be possible. (EET does it... I mean EET does a lot more so it might not be easy to learn from... but it at least shows this kind of thing is doable.)

[picollo]

12 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Could you create a whole new campaign, starting in some other area, and then after the introductory whatever use the MoveToExpansion() action?

Give the new campaign the same icon as TOB, and use UI modding to add it to the main screen while removing the TOB campaign. 

All very theoretical, but from what I’ve reading about the EE 2.0+ capabilities, something like that should be possible. (EET does it... I mean EET does a lot more so it might not be easy to learn from... but it at least shows this kind of thing is doable.)

This looks like extremely big solution for Like 1-2 hour planned content.
I'd have to evaluate this.
Aside from checking how EET works (which could be intimidating, so I'd probably avoid it unless necessary, is there any good tutorial on gui editing/ configuring new campaign?  I'll take a look at this, but if possible, I'd start from something simple.

[subtledoctor]

I know it sounds like a big solution for a small problem but it’s really not “big” per se. The “campaign” would start in an already-existing area, right? So really it would just be a start script, whatever dialogues and scripts would transition it to TOB, the UI work, and a few campaign-based .2da tables.

Like, EET creates two new campaigns in BG2 and then fills them with the entire imported campaigns of BG1 and SoD. All of the meat of it - the actual campaigns - is unnecessary here.You would only need the basic skeleton.

It’s not anything I have experience with. I’ve just read about the new engine’s ability to create campaigns, and seen that some people have successfully used it. There may well be simpler solutions... but in my experience when hitting walls of hard-coded behavior, I sometimes have to think outside the box.

[picollo]

No, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is wrong solution. But my plan was to add prologue to ToB. Make the SoA end right when you defeat Irenicus. Then we kinda go all Rivendell- ToB starts in Suldanessellar, Charname doesn't know where they are, and where their companions are. You get option to summon your party here, instead of in Pocket Plane (they were here with you, right? *wink wink* ). Then we go to celebrate victory, all Ellessime speech happens. We get some simple quests- mostly to kill some time, and show how the hatred against Children of Bhaal grows. Just after that we're exiled from the city, and we start further investigation of prophecy- we go to the HEads, and classic ToB starts.
But this is very simple, and classic modding. Something that I used to know long time ago.
Adding new campaign? GUI editing? This might be simple, but that's starting from scratch for me.

[subtledoctor]

10 minutes ago, picollo said:

But this is very simple, and classic modding.

Ha! Sounds extremely complex to me! (Also, sounds very cool. It seems like it would certainly improve the transition, which was always a bit... rough-hewn in the original.)

But, given that the existing SoA and ToB games have been categorized as "campaigns" in this new structure, and you want to add something between one campaign and another (as SoD fits between BG1 and SoA), it kind of seems like this is more or less exactly what Beamdog built this new functionality for.

Of course that only works with the new EE games... if you want to include the original engine then this is a no-go right out of the gate.

Just brainstorming... if the beginning of ToB has hard-coded weirdness, maybe graft this on to the end of SoA instead? Maybe the script after the last Irenicus battle can be modified so that some added content can be added before the transition to ToB is triggered? (Of course then the new content would be unavailable to anyone who starts a brand-new ToB game... but, who in their right mind says "I have a hankering to play some BG2" and then skips all of SoA??)

Edited February 17, 2022 by subtledoctor

[picollo]

I mean, this is meant to be the ToB mod- so if I make ToB prologue, but then make it not available in ToB, then... Kinda misses expected goal.

 

20 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

but, who in their right mind says "I have a hankering to play some BG2" and then skips all of SoA??)

Then what about some mods to make it "I'd like to play some shorter, but enjoyable campaign. Now with all the mods, I can try playing ToB, and not feel like I'm playing Hack'n Slash.

I feel like "just hack the AR4000 script, and just instantly jump to intended start feels like good enough solution for the WiP phase.
I'm asking these all questions about campaigns, and gui modding to evaluate if this is something I can figure out quickly, and start with proper, elegant solution, or if this is something that'll cause some headache, and wil lrequire extensive learning. I'd like to solve it elegant way, but if it turns out to require 10 2da files, where I define don't know, dialogue files for banters for this campaign, then another 15 files to adjust gui as needed, then maybe this hacky way is  best effort2effect solution.

Edited February 17, 2022 by picollo

[subtledoctor]

Right. The UI stuff is outside my capabilities too. Reading the thread again, I might do something like,

• add a "Variable = 1" to the conditions of every IF clause in AR4000.bcs
• add a line to the top that says IF Variable = 0, then blind the party (so they can't see AR4000.are), and move them to another area, and then unblind them.
• then do the mod stuff, and at the end, set the global variable to 1 and send them back to AR4000.are

I guess something like that is what you're already contemplating, which means you are already beyond me and I should probably shut up

[picollo]

27 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I guess something like that is what you're already contemplating, which means you are already beyond me and I should probably shut up

From experience, I just have to look at first "OnCreation" trigger, and just play with this. AR4000 has one such trigger there, IIRC updating journal, and stuff, so that's the point
Assuming no compatibility checks (Wheels of Prophecy IIRC does something with area script), that should be it.