Implosion should use opcode 185

[DavidW]

(I'm assuming a general framework for thinking about opcodes 109, 175 and 185 which I laid out here).

Implosion immobilizes creatures by trapping them in a fiery chasm. It implements this with opcode 175 (Hold Creature). That means that Chaotic Commands and Free Action protect you from the immobilisation effect of Implosion. I submit this is a mistake: obviously so for Chaotic Commands (mental serenity does not help you climb out of a fiery chasm) and I suggest also for Free Action (it doesn't give you the ability to fly, walk through walls, or escape from Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: I think it protects you from things that affect your movement directly, not physical barriers). It also looks silly cosmetically: if you can walk out of the fiery chasm, then it just stays there for six seconds looking pretty, and not affecting anyone else who wanders into it. And from a balance point of view, Implosion isn't all that powerful, and 1 round of guaranteed hold that can't be countered is an improvement, though for a fixpack I don't think that's a major consideration.

(This is, incidentally, a BD change. Bioware used 109, which meant that undead weren't caught in the chasm. BD's change is clearly for the better but I think it's still not working as intended. I think there is fairly good evidence that BD had lost track of the 175/185 distinction so that their choice of 175 over 185 doesn't indicate developer intent.)

I suggest this is a case where we should use opcode 185, which is supposed to represent physical immobilizing effects and which almost nothing is immune to.

[Luke]

9 hours ago, DavidW said:

I suggest this is a case where we should use opcode 185, which is supposed to represent physical immobilizing effects and which almost nothing is immune to

I agree.

Additionally, all flying (f.i. RACE=HARPY, RACE=WYVERN, RACE=DRAGON, etc...) and magically levitating (RACE=DEMILICH, GENERAL=WEAPON – Mordenkainen's Sword) creatures should be completely immune to it...

As far as this particular case is concerned, I'd suggest following the IWD architecture (op324 on the SPL file) instead of the BG architecture (op101 on the creatures skin or on the CRE files itself). I mean, I can see why certain demons should be vulnerable to Poison... But should, say, certain DRAGONs be vulnerable to ground-based attacks...?

[DavidW]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

Additionally, all flying (f.i. RACE=HARPY, RACE=WYVERN, RACE=DRAGON, etc...) and magically levitating (RACE=DEMILICH, GENERAL=WEAPON – Mordenkainen's Sword) creatures should be completely immune to it...

Too large a step for me, and I don't see why a magical chasm can't magically pull in its target.

 

1 hour ago, Luke said:

As far as this particular case is concerned, I'd suggest following the IWD architecture (op324 on the SPL file) instead of the BG architecture (op101 on the creatures skin or on the CRE files itself).

I think my general don't-change-the-architecture point applies in this case.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

Additionally, all flying (f.i. RACE=HARPY, RACE=WYVERN, RACE=DRAGON, etc...) and magically levitating (RACE=DEMILICH, GENERAL=WEAPON – Mordenkainen's Sword) creatures should be completely immune to it...

I agree 100% with regard to Web, in the other thread... but very much do not agree for Implosion. It’s 10th-level (ish) magic forcing the target into the effect... you can’t just flap your wings to get away.

[Luke]

22 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

It’s 10th-level (ish) magic forcing the target into the effect... you can’t just flap your wings to get away.

OK, fine.

I've never considered it as a "magical chasm that can magically pull in its targets"... On reflection, it makes sense though...