Jump to content

Shapeshifting inconsistencies


jmerry

Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

So every shapechange and polymorph form use SPINHUM.spl to go back to natural form? What does that one look like? Does it specifically handle every shapechange ability (so I would need to add 321 effects or something)  or does it just zero everything out?

The universal Natural Form ability is castable at will and applies two subspells:

  • "SPINHUME.SPL"
    • it heals the caster for 3d10 HP
    • only relevant for Fire / Earth Elemental Transformation
      • the caster is automatically protected if not transformed into one of these two forms
  • "SPINHUMR.SPL"
    • as already said, this subspell will cancel any previous polymorph and the Slayer Change delayed damage (you know, the "You feel your control slipping..." damage...)

    • So yes, it terminates any existing polymorph and clears the Magical Weapon Slot

Link to comment
On 5/19/2022 at 10:56 AM, Luke said:
On 5/19/2022 at 6:03 AM, mickabouille said:

Hi, I think this is related to this discussion.

At this line https://github.com/Gibberlings3/EE_Fixpack/blob/399d2cf45f402c308416df01b8c86bb5376a8c30/eefixpack/languages/en_us/fixes_iwdee.tra#L443

I think this should be 40313, not 40413

> @40413 = "Shapeshift: Water Elemental

Yes, you're right, thanks for noticing it.

A few minor things with the text in the link. This is all from my old post.

@40313 = "Shapeshift: Water Elemental - This is used for both the druid shapeshift and the mage shapechange. A new text string should be created for the Shapechange version.

@36184 = "Shapechange: Fire Elemental - missing the 15% acid and electricity resist.

@36186 = "Shapechange: Earth Elemental - fire and cold resist should be 25%, not 20%

@36180 = "Shapechange: Giant Troll - form has 18 Strength, not 18/00 (unless this is changed by EEFP)

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Dan_P said:

@40313 = "Shapeshift: Water Elemental - This is used for both the druid shapeshift and the mage shapechange. A new text string should be created for the Shapechange version.

Yes, you're right, will fix.

17 hours ago, Dan_P said:

@36184 = "Shapechange: Fire Elemental - missing the 15% acid and electricity resist.

Thanks for noticing it. I'll update it so as to match the Druid variant ("spcl112.spl"), whose description does mention that...

17 hours ago, Dan_P said:

@36186 = "Shapechange: Earth Elemental - fire and cold resist should be 25%, not 20%

Thanks for noticing it. I'll update it so as to match the Druid variant ("spcl113.spl"), whose description does mention 25...

17 hours ago, Dan_P said:

@36180 = "Shapechange: Giant Troll - form has 18 Strength, not 18/00 (unless this is changed by EEFP)

As far as this is concerned, guess I'll assume description is correct ( @CamDawg ) and thus change Strength accordingly (so basically in this game this form is stronger than its BG variant...)

Edited by Luke
Link to comment

Also, I don't know if it's true or relevant, but the french translation for

@36184 = "Shapechange: Fire Elemental

adds some bits that are not in the english version

- an immunity to weapons +2 or lower

- an additional line for 100% magic fire resistance (probably a different resistance that ordinary fire)

 

Not saying you must have everything stated in the description, would depend if other forms have them but not this particular one.

Link to comment
On 5/23/2022 at 2:57 PM, mickabouille said:

- an immunity to weapons +2 or lower

- an additional line for 100% magic fire resistance (probably a different resistance that ordinary fire)

That's probably left over from the BG2 text. The Shapechange elemental forms in IWDEE are identical to the druid versions. No weapon immunities (they have physical damage resistance instead). The elementals do have a couple unlisted immunities. They're immune to web and entangle.

Magic fire/cold resist. The elementals have these, but it looks intentional to leave them off (at least for English). None of the IWD shapeshifts mention magic fire/cold. Some of the Polymorph Self and Shapechange forms copied from BG2 do list those as separate resists.

Link to comment

Came across this old post, noting innate abilities in BG2EE which have the wrong descriptions. None of these are relevant except for the return-to-self spells from the polymorphs and slayer transformations. There's a post from a dev confirming it should be fixed, though clearly the lazy bastard never followed up on it.

So, question for @Luke: can you work this into the current polymorph machinations? Or is it easier to do this as a separate patch before/after the other polymorph fixes?

Link to comment
9 hours ago, CamDawg said:

So, question for @Luke: can you work this into the current polymorph machinations? Or is it easier to do this as a separate patch before/after the other polymorph fixes?

The new method uses a single return-to-self ability, whose description is fine. The other return-to-self abilities have been redirected to cast the new SPL file (they're otherwise unused, so their description is irrelevant... Having said that, I should probably fix it in any case...).

As far as the various "End Slayer Change" are concerned... @kjeron Should we edit them to cast the new return-to-self ability (i.e. "SPINHUMR.SPL")...? I'm particularly referring to the ones used in scripts (cutscenes)... The others are no longer needed...

Link to comment
On 4/29/2022 at 9:57 PM, kjeron said:

I don't know whether the size issue was fixed or not.

@kjeron You remember this...?

Apparently, polymorphing into a Giant Troll ("spin154.spl" or Cloak of the Sewers) will get you stuck in place 😕...

However, setting `personal_space` to 3 (or any other value...?) in "trollall.itm" (via op342) does nothing... Changing animation to "shtroll.cre" does nothing too...

Do you have any other suggestion...?

Edited by Luke
Link to comment
On 7/31/2022 at 6:05 AM, Luke said:

@kjeron You remember this...?

Apparently, polymorphing into a Giant Troll ("spin154.spl" or Cloak of the Sewers) will get you stuck in place 😕...

However, setting `personal_space` to 3 (or any other value...?) in "trollall.itm" (via op342) does nothing... Changing animation to "shtroll.cre" does nothing too...

Do you have any other suggestion...?

I've not been able to reproduce it, but that would have to be a different issue - those trolls already have personal space of 3.

Link to comment
9 hours ago, kjeron said:

I've not been able to reproduce it, but that would have to be a different issue - those trolls already have personal space of 3.

I think I found the culprit: "trollall.itm" applies op176 with p1=11 and p2=5 (i.e., it's using the 'Multiplicative Stacking Percentage' mode, which apparently makes you move so slow that you are basically stuck in place...?)

Anyway, since all the other trolls with that animation ("trollboo.itm") use p1=11 and p2=1 (i.e., 'Set' mode), then "trollall.itm" should also use it...

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Luke said:

Anyway, since all the other trolls with that animation ("trollboo.itm") use p1=11 and p2=1 (i.e., 'Set' mode), then "trollall.itm" should also use it...

Now that I think of it, it would be bad because it would overwrite "Entangle", "Grease" and the like...

I think the best option is to remove it... On top of that, the other Shapechange forms do not grant any bonus to movement speed, so why should this one be different...? Ditto for Cloak of the Sewers...

Edited by Luke
Link to comment

About shapeshifting, my revised dispel magic mod for BG2 allows users to select whether spells of 7th level and above are undispellable and relies on opcodes #220, #172 and #112 to remove the polymorphed and shapechanged forms (or only the polymorphed forms, since Shapechange is 9th level) granted by these wizard spells. Druidic shapeshifting and the Slayer change are intentionally unaffected.

I would like a list of planned renaming of SPIN___ .spls relating to the forms and "equipped" attack .itm files that are to be changed for the fixpack related to shapeshifting, so that I can ensure nothing breaks between my mod and the latest fixes.

Of course, players generally use only two of the forms granted by Polymorph Self and Shapechange while fighting spellcasters: The erroneously 100% magic-resistant mustard jelly and the correctly 100% magic resistant iron golem. Since they're not likely to choose a bear while faced with a mage the changed filenames may go unnoticed, but I'd prefer to make sure.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...