Shapeshifting inconsistencies

[Luke]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:11 PM, polytope said:

I would like a list of planned renaming of SPIN___ .spls relating to the forms and "equipped" attack .itm files that are to be changed for the fixpack related to shapeshifting,

Spoiler

• Flind (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI493~ (spl file),  ~PLYFLIND~ (itm file)
• Ogre (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI494~ (spl file),  ~PLYMSTAR~ (itm file)
• Spider (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI495~ (spl file),  ~PLYSPID~ (itm file)
• Jelly (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI496~ (spl file),  ~PLYJELLY~ (itm file)
• Brown Bear (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI497~ (spl file),  ~PLYBEAR1~ (itm file)
• Black Bear (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI498~ (spl file),  ~PLYBEAR2~ (itm file)
• Wolf (Polymorph Self)
  • (all games):  ~SPWI499~ (spl file),  ~PLYWOLF1~ (itm file)
• Boring Beetle (Polymorph Self)
  • (iwdee only):  ~SPWI480~ (spl file),  ~CDPOLYBB~ (itm file)
• Polar Bear (Polymorph Self)
  • (iwdee only):  ~SPWI481~ (spl file),  ~CDPOLYPB~ (itm file)
• Winter Wolf (Polymorph Self)
  • (iwdee only):  ~SPWI482~ (spl file),  ~CDPOLYWW~ (itm file)
• Mind Flayer (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN152~ (spl file),  ~CDMINDFL~ (itm file)
• Iron Golem (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN153~ (spl file),  ~CDGOLIRO~ (itm file)
• Troll (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN154~ (spl file),  ~TROLLALL~ (itm file)
• Werewolf (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN155~ (spl file),  ~WOLFGR~ (itm file)
• Fire Elemental (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN156~ (spl file),  ~FIRERN~ (itm file)
• Earth Elemental (Shapechange)
  • (all games):  ~SPIN157~ (spl file),  ~EARTHRN~ (itm file)
• Water Elemental (Shapechange)
  • (iwdee only):  ~SPIN198~ (spl file),  ~CDSHWELE~ (itm file)

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Luke

[polytope]

Thank you @Luke until now I had been using ids targeting to remove GOLIRO.itm and MINDFLAY.itm specifically from party members (since the only way those could be equipped by PCs is the Shapechange spell).

Most encountered monsters used a different attack .itm to their equivalent Shapechange/Polymorph Self forms, those two were the exception.

I also used the same trick to have Remove/Dispel Magic disintegrate creatures with racial type of MIST or SWORD and gender SUMMONED (Nishruus and Mordies).

[Trouveur80]

I was wondering which werewolf form was kept for this fix ?

In BGEE, a character can still talk while in werewolf form, can equip an off hand weapon and fully use it without dual wielding penalty and still benefits from single weapon proficiency. Also the magic resistance from the form replaces magic resistance from other sources instead of being cumulative.

In BG2EE, a character can't talk while in werewolf form, can't equip an off hand while shapeshifted but can benefit from passive bonus from an off hand weapon put there before shapeshifting (like the +1 APR from Belm), magic resistance from the form is cumulative with other MR sources (but items have to be reequipped after shapeshifting for it to work).

Maybe it would be better to have the claws from the forms considered as a two handed weapon, so off hand item would be completely ignored and two handed weapon proficiency would be used instead ?

Also, description from werewolf form precises the enchantment level of the claws, but the description from the greater werewolf form doesn't. It would be nice to have some consistencies here.

[Luke]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:26 PM, Trouveur80 said:

Maybe it would be better to have the claws from the forms considered as a two handed weapon, so off hand item would be completely ignored and two handed weapon proficiency would be used instead ?

Yes, you're right: the off-hand item should be completely ignored, including passive bonuses / maluses. Will fix...

[subtledoctor]

On 11/8/2022 at 5:56 AM, Luke said:

Will fix.

How? Isn't setting shapeshift form claw weapons to be two-handed the only way to deal with this? This would be my suggestion, even if it would be weird to get a benefit from two-handed style. Better than then "dual-wielding" a scimitar with your spider bite or whatever...

Also, not that on the EEs, even though you can't set a proficiency to be lower, you can decrease a proficiency by a set amount. So with judicious use of op318 we can reduce a style proficiency to zero while a shapeshift weapon is equipped... just saying.

EDIT - now  something is itching in the back of my brain. Apologies if this is going over previously-trod ground.

[Luke]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:26 PM, Trouveur80 said:

Maybe it would be better to have the claws from the forms considered as a two handed weapon, so off hand item would be completely ignored and two handed weapon proficiency would be used instead ?

Done.

On 11/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, subtledoctor said:

How? Isn't setting shapeshift form claw weapons to be two-handed the only way to deal with this? This would be my suggestion, even if it would be weird to get a benefit from two-handed style. Better than then "dual-wielding" a scimitar with your spider bite or whatever...

That is not needed.

As far as single-handed weapons are concerned, it is sufficient to set BIT7 (LEFTHANDED)...

On 11/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, subtledoctor said:

Also, note that on the EEs, even though you can't set a proficiency to be lower, you can decrease a proficiency by a set amount. So with judicious use of op318 we can reduce a style proficiency to zero while a shapeshift weapon is equipped... just saying.

Yeah, I tried that trick...

However, it apparently causes all sorts of issues when applied to Dual-class characters (because incrementing / decrementing the active amount will also alter the original amount, so in the end everything is messed up...)

As a result, setting a proficiency to 0 (SWORDANDSHIELD and SINGLEWEAPON in this case) via the repeating EFF+SPL trick is our best bet...

Edited November 11, 2022 by Luke