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[Bug?] Chaotic Commands blocks 109 and 175


DavidW

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8 minutes ago, DavidW said:

I don't see any in-game evidence at all that the developers intended elves to be immune to these forms of paralysis.

(As a matter of PnP lore, elves are immune to ghoul, but not ghast or lich, paralysis. But there is no evidence that I can see that the developers (BD or Bioware) intended to incorporate that feature of PnP in the game.)

I was about to post about this. My initial reaction was also a no, but there is evidence for this.

  • oIWD always stayed a lot closer to PnP, so it's no surprise that elves and undead are immune to ghoul attacks. They even extended partial protection (70% immunity) for half-elves. Ghast attacks have no such protections. IWDEE keeps this setup.
  • In oBG, this was also implemented. Through 109's race targeting, ghoul attacks worked on all of the PC races except elves (humans, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Ghast attacks worked on everyone.
  • This convention continued into SoA, and it wasn't until ToB that ghoul attacks were finally made into universal 109s.

So, oIWD and IWDEE are consistent. You could argue that BGEE using a universal 109 is a regression from oBG. BG2 is a little harder to make the case, but I can also see someone making it universal instead of trying to list all of the creatures it should get (tieflings and half-orcs just for the party, and then a whole mess of other creatures to cover summons).

 

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2 hours ago, CamDawg said:

I was about to post about this. My initial reaction was also a no, but there is evidence for this.

  • oIWD always stayed a lot closer to PnP, so it's no surprise that elves and undead are immune to ghoul attacks. They even extended partial protection (70% immunity) for half-elves. Ghast attacks have no such protections. IWDEE keeps this setup.
  • In oBG, this was also implemented. Through 109's race targeting, ghoul attacks worked on all of the PC races except elves (humans, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Ghast attacks worked on everyone.
  • This convention continued into SoA, and it wasn't until ToB that ghoul attacks were finally made into universal 109s.

So, oIWD and IWDEE are consistent. You could argue that BGEE using a universal 109 is a regression from oBG. BG2 is a little harder to make the case, but I can also see someone making it universal instead of trying to list all of the creatures it should get (tieflings and half-orcs just for the party, and then a whole mess of other creatures to cover summons).

 

Oh, that's interesting. I was looking at GHOULT.itm, which is the Ghoul Touch weapon, but GHOUL1.itm is the actual ghoul weapon, and I see what you mean.

On that basis I think there's a very good case for BGEE continuing elven resistance, and at least a fairly good case for BG2EE, especially given that implementation is now pretty simple.

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On 3/25/2022 at 7:13 PM, CamDawg said:

In oBG, this was also implemented. Through 109's race targeting, ghoul attacks worked on all of the PC races except elves (humans, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes). Ghast attacks worked on everyone.

On EE games, only "demmau01.itm" is coded like that (unless I'm missing something...)

Anyway, as @DavidW said, it's now pretty simple to include all PC races except elves (again, op318/324 on all ghoul attacks, including WIZARD_GHOUL_TOUCH...)

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Neither here nor there, but I'm looking into some revisions of my psionic powers mod and I have a telepathic power that protects against sleep, fear, charm, confusion, stun, and... hold; and a telekinetic power that protects against slow, entangle, web, paralysis, and... hold. Basically Chaotic Commands and Free Action. Where should protection against 175 go? Isn't it conceptually muddy to have it in both a telepathic power and a telekinetic power?

It's a conundrum.

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