BBoD (and maybe other magical weapons) seem to ignore dual wielding

[RoyalProtector]

Apparently it seems if you wield a weapon in the off hand, the game will interpret it as it didn't exist as far as weapon styles go.

I noticed this because the critical hit bonus from one handed style still applies even if wielding a weapon in the off hand.

Not sure how that would interact with other mods that change styles such as Scales of Balance (or was it Might and Guile?).

Is it fixable?

Edited May 26, 2022 by RoyalProtector

[Luke]

Are you sure the BBoD ignores Two-Weapon style...? It is working fine for me...

As far as the other magical weapons are concerned, they all disable Two-Weapon style (unless they're actual weapons such as the BBoD / Phantom Blade / Seeking Sword / etc...).

On top of it, the Fixpack will make sure all one-handed natural creature weapons (from Polymorph abilities) and Touch attacks (Shocking Grasp and the like) do not benefit from Sword and Shield Style and Single-Weapon Style... Since they're not actual weapons, you should not benefit from those styles...

Edited May 26, 2022 by Luke

[Andrea C.]

I think @RoyalProtector 's problem is another—BBoD benefits from Single-Weapon Style even if you're dual-wielding it.

[Luke]

4 minutes ago, Andrea C. said:

I think @RoyalProtector 's problem is another—BBoD benefits from Single-Weapon Style even if you're dual-wielding it.

Yes, I fear @RoyalProtector is right...

@Bubb Can you confirm op111 messes with Two-Weapon style even if BIT7 (Left-handed) and BIT13 (Forbid off-hand weapon) are both set to 0 in the ITM file at offset 0x18...?

[RoyalProtector]

Honestly I don't even know what is happening.

I removed the three pips on dual wielding and this is THAC0 which results from holding two long swords.

It doesn't make sense.  The one handed bonus is applying though.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by RoyalProtector

[Bubb]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

@Bubb Can you confirm op111 messes with Two-Weapon style even if BIT7 (Left-handed) and BIT13 (Forbid off-hand weapon) are both set to 0 in the ITM file at offset 0x18...?

There's an exception in the engine -- if PROFICIENCY2WEAPON is going to be applied and the currently-selected weapon is in SLOT_MISC19, apply PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON instead.

[Bubb]

...And since PROFICIENCY2WEAPON is what applies the penalties for dual-wielding, having a weapon created by op111 removes the thac0 penalties for dual-wielding all together.

@RoyalProtector The thac0 difference between your character's main-hand and off-hand are from the different enchantment levels of the weapons. Since BBoD is created by op111 Two-Weapon Style is completely ignored, including any penalties it would have otherwise applied.

[Graion Dilach]

Wouldn't applying op305s to the magic weapons fix this? I know it would be hacky, but that sounds the best to me...

[Luke]

14 hours ago, Bubb said:

There's an exception in the engine -- if PROFICIENCY2WEAPON is going to be applied and the currently-selected weapon is in SLOT_MISC19, apply PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON instead.

I see.

Engine bug...? I mean, we already have BIT7 / BIT13 to disable PROFICIENCY2WEAPON... Why should the engine apply PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON when the currently-selected weapon is in SLOT_MISC19 ...?

14 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

Wouldn't applying op305s to the magic weapons fix this? I know it would be hacky, but that sounds the best to me...

Very hacky I'd say...

You know, there is no way to know a priori how many pips you have in PROFICIENCY2WEAPON...

Guess we could disable (set to 0) PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON when such weapons (BBoD / Phantom Blade / Seeking Sword / etc...) are equipped (I've already coded that)... In so doing, you won't benefit from neither PROFICIENCY2WEAPON nor PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON...

[RoyalProtector]

Speaking of which, I don't know if my game is broken or what, but BBoD does NOT set 5 pips in Long Sword. Looking at it in NI, it doesn't seem to be broken though. Tested on the character above.

Is something wrong in this effect?

Type: Modify proficiencies (233)
Target: Self (1)
Power: 0
# stars: Active class: 5, Original class: 0
Proficiency: PROFICIENCYLONGSWORD - 90
Behavior: Set if higher (0)
Timing mode: Instant/While equipped - 2
Dispel/Resistance: Not dispel/Bypass resistance (2)
Duration: 0
Probability 1: 100
Probability 2: 0
Unused: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 h
# dice thrown/maximum level: 0
Dice size/minimum level: 0
Save type: ( No save )
Save bonus: 0
Special: 1

 

Also the enchantment is level 6, while in the description it states that it acts as a +5 weapon... This might require a separate thread?

Edited May 27, 2022 by RoyalProtector

[Luke]

34 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

Speaking of which, I don't know if my game is broken or what, but BBoD does NOT set 5 pips in Long Sword

Yeah, this is a known issue. The Fixpack will take care of it...

35 minutes ago, RoyalProtector said:

Also the enchantment is level 6, while in the description it states that it acts as a +5 weapon...

Yeah, I missed that, thanks for noticing it. Will fix.

[subtledoctor]

21 hours ago, Luke said:

Fixpack will make sure all one-handed natural creature weapons (from Polymorph abilities) and Touch attacks (Shocking Grasp and the like) do not benefit from Sword and Shield Style and Single-Weapon Style

Wait really? How? I didn't think this was possible - I thought every weapon automatically  benefits from the STYLBONU.2da effects that match the weapon's category.

[Bartimaeus]

9 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Wait really? How? I didn't think this was possible - I thought every weapon automatically  benefits from the STYLBONU.2da effects that match the weapon's category.

Since they're magically summoned weapons, I believe you can just change the item type and proficiency so they're not counted as not being weapons at all - the character will still use them as a weapon since it's in the slot with a valid weapon extended header, but proficiencies won't come into play. Don't quote me on this, but I think that's what IR/SR does - stuff like the troll weapon for IR's polymorph troll has its proficiency set to 0x0, and the item type to something like "hand to hand", I think.

(e): I don't know why I posted this, I should've just let Luke respond instead of having a bunch of "I think"s.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Luke]

29 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Wait really? How? I didn't think this was possible - I thought every weapon automatically  benefits from the STYLBONU.2da effects that match the weapon's category.

As Bubb said, op233 needs to be applied with a limited timing mode in order to bypass Chargen proficiencies and override them. As a result:

• I attached an op272 effect (param1=1, param2=0, timing=2, resource="EFF") to all such weapons (Apply Repeating EFF, once per second)
  • "EFF" => op146, timing=1, param2=1, resource="SPL"
    • "SPL"
      • op321, timing=1, resource="SPL" // refresh without stacking
      • op233, param1=0, param2=PROFICIENCYSINGLEWEAPON, duration=2 // I put `duration=2` (instead of 1) because I do not want Slow to affect it – Slow is supposed to double the timing rate of op272
      • op233, param1=0, param2=PROFICIENCYSWORDANDSHIELD, duration=2 // I put `duration=2` (instead of 1) because I do not want Slow to affect it – Slow is supposed to double the timing rate of op272
      • op142, param2=<some_custom_icon>, duration=2 // I put `duration=2` (instead of 1) because I do not want Slow to affect it – Slow is supposed to double the timing rate of op272

That custom icon is needed to prevent the player from triggering the following bug:

if you Dual-class when the Black Blade is equipped, the character permanently gains grand mastery in long swords

So yes, as you can see, it is possible to override Chargen proficiencies. It's just a bit messy because it requires a UI hack. In particular, you can't level up / Dual Class until when such weapons are unequipped...

Edited May 27, 2022 by Luke

[RoyalProtector]

I temporarily fixed it in my game by duplicating an effect that increases proficiencies by 3. It seems to set it to 5 anyway.

The 5 pips sure make a difference