holocaust spell rename

[subtledoctor]

On 7/7/2022 at 11:00 AM, InKal said:

"The word "holocaust" originally derived from the Koine Greek word holokauston, meaning "a completely (holos) burnt (kaustos) sacrificial offering," or "a burnt sacrifice offered to a god." In Hellenistic religion, gods of the earth and underworld received dark animals, which were offered by night and burnt in full."

pretty much exactly what the spell does. why change the name? why seeking "problems" where there is none? 

That's... not what the spell does? Did you read the post? If the spell did fire damage it would make some sense. But to take the word holocaust as a proper noun and move the spell effect away from the traditional fire-related meaning and instead have it do poison damage, via a gas cloud projectile, almost seems like it is intentionally adopting a design inspired by the  capital-H Holocaust perpetrated by the nazis in the 1940s. So it it not a case of seeking problems, but rather players having something pretty fucking offensive shoved in front of their face in the middle of a completely unrelated game.

You can of course do what you like in your mod. It's a free country! (Well, some countries are.) But it's a bit weird for you to find it problematic when community members give constructive criticism to let a modder know a choice of wording or design is problematic. Are you... against people giving constructive feedback to modders? You do know this is a site devoted entirely to discussion of mods... right?

On-topic: how about "Vaporous Plague?"

(Credit where do: that’s just a variation on Jerusnare’s idea of using the word “plague” - to represent high-level toxicity.)

Edited July 11, 2022 by subtledoctor

[jastey]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

how about "Vaporous Plague?"

I like that one.

In case it was not clear: I'd recall my suggestion "Inferno" as I don't think it fits that well for a poisonous cloud.

[Endarire]

What about "Smog?"

[Guest Jeremias]

  

On 7/10/2022 at 1:36 AM, The_Baffled_King said:

Guest Jeremias, I’ve already said that I agree with changing the name of the spell, given what it does. Also, I appreciate that you expressed yourself politely, and I don’t want to be unkind. With that said, I am also a native English speaker, and I’m sorry to say that your comments about the usage of the word “holocaust” are totally inaccurate. Please make sure that you have your facts about the usage of a word right before asking for it to be changed because you're sure it’s offensive. Freedom of expression is a human right, and freedom of speech is a fundamental pillar of liberal democracy, whereas the freedom to not be offended is neither of those things.

There are five posts earlier in the thread that mention that the word in question is used in other contexts, including the one immediately above your post. More importantly, if a word is present in dictionaries, and it isn’t identified as archaic, then it’s probably a bit of a stretch for anyone to argue that the word is “not really one that's ever used”, unless of course the argument originates with a professional in the field of linguistics. This applies all the more when dealing with English words because the language is so widespread - it’s an official language and primary language or lingua franca in countries on every single continent (not counting Antarctica).

Here are three reputable mainstream sources published within the last month alone that refer to "nuclear holocaust": in America (Harper's Bazaar), in Britain (The Times), and in Canada (The Globe and Mail). I found them in a few minutes on the first couple of pages of a google search. A more thorough search would undoubtedly have found many more examples from similar sources, even if searching only for material from this year. In public discourse relating to nuclear weapons, it's very common to refer to nuclear holocaust.

I challenged myself to think of another plausible use for the word, then find some relatively recent examples in reputable mainstream sources, all within five minutes. I managed it: wildfires are still described as a holocaust. Here are two examples from America: in the Los Angeles Times, in 2020, and in a speech by President Bush, in 2003. There's also fiction to consider, and I can't imagine what standard of proof is necessary to declare that a word is no longer used in fiction. Even if the word "holocaust" did pass out of normal usage, it would remain in dictionaries but be identified as archaic. What genre of fiction often uses archaic wording? Fantasy. Like Baldur’s Gate.

 

I don't really think talking about nuclear holocausts or wildfires is something 99% of British/American people do in their day to day lives, but ok, good to know. 

Regardless, I do see your point about archaic language. However, I don't really think other definitions are remotely relevant to the topic at hand. You already said that you agree about its name being a "no-go" - and I believe that you realise the spell does imply a nuclear explosion or a wildfires... It sends out a "venomous" cloud -type effect. 

Back on topic, someone suggested "Murdermist", and I like it.

[Endarire]

There's also a Divinity: Original Sin II reference of "Death Fog," but there's already a similar BG series spell name to that.

[Daeros_Trollkiller]

On 7/7/2022 at 4:31 AM, jastey said:

What comes to my mind would be Inferno. At least in German it means a firebreath, fire catastrophy of sorts.

I'm torn if the renaming is only out of respect against my feelings. I appreciate it very much! But like the example I chose above - if the word holocaust means nothing special - as a word - in English, then it's a narrow path to rename it. This is something I can't say. But it seems I am not the only one feeling bad about this, so, biased as I am, I would still think renaming it wouldn't be wrong.

(I'm pretty sure it would be renamed in a German translation.)

Thank you Jastey.  Since "Inferno" by itself leans more towards a description of fire, I will probably add more to it, or looks for other synonyms.

 

And you're damned right I have a lot of respect for you.  You helped me tons when I was getting started with Weidu, and becoming a Gibberling.

[Daeros_Trollkiller]

I have a few ideas now for the rename of this spell, thank you everyone for the feedback.  It will be implemented in the next update.

[jastey]

Cool! Thank you.

[InThePineways]

I think we should rename it Jew Slaughter Ultra Hitler Holocaust. Quit being such a sensitive bitch.

[CamDawg]

35 minutes ago, InThePineways said:

I think we should rename it Jew Slaughter Ultra Hitler Holocaust. Quit being such a sensitive bitch.

In the olden days, I'd take the time to explain why someone is being an insensitive POS. However that relies on some combination of the poster having a sense of shame, decency, or generally not being 12. Since none of those apply here, we're going to be taking a short break from the site. And by 'we', I mean you.

As for the thread itself: a concern was raised, and was addressed, in the fashion of rational adults. Since we've officially entered the performative vice-signalling portion of the program, I'm closing the thread.