The Physical Mirror effect (197) is not reflected but deflected in the original edition with ToB

[Guest Otyugh]

Hi,

To my surprise, a projectile covered by this effect is not reflected but deflected on my freshly installed original edition of BG2 with ToB, and the last patch 2.5.26498. When hit, no damage is dealt but nothing is reflected either.

The IESDP doesn't mention this. Was it always the case? I could be dreaming it but I seem to remember that it did long ago?

I thought that maybe it does reflect things without ToB installed, but gets nerfed with ToB, like the Cloak of Mirroring. I can't check without reinstalling everything, but that cloak uses Protection from spell type (effect 205) with ToB so it looks like the item got nerfed, not effect 197.

 

[lynx]

What are you testing with?

[Guest Otyugh]

Shield of Reflection (SHLD24), tried a few different projectiles it targets: normal arrows, Firetooth crossbow and Firetooth dagger. At first I thought it might just not reflect missiles from allies but it's the same with enemies. No mod of course, fresh install.

[lynx]

I tried with my gog version and +2 arrows got properly reflected. Are you sure those weren't just misses for you?

The fixpack only adds missing projectiles, but since you tested with many already on the list, that doesn't change anything:

https://github.com/Gibberlings3/BG2-Fixpack/blob/4e47a5cdc147c2541515c64ca97684fd4806aca3/bg2fixpack/lib/core_item_other.tph#L1360

[Guest Otyugh]

I tried with +2 arrows (AROW11), same deal, they're only deflected. Not missed attacks either, even crits are deflected. Did you install the fixpack on your own, or is it included by default in the GoG version?

I am using the Baldur's Gate 4 in 1 Boxset edition. My version is in French, but I've never seen an instance where game mechanics differ from the English version or other editions of the original game. I have seen many instances where a modded game changes weird details where one would not expect any change, though.

The current GoG edition of the original game being provided by Beamdog if I recall correctly, it might stand out from all the other editions due to them perhaps including some fixes?

[polytope]

16 hours ago, lynx said:

I tried with my gog version and +2 arrows got properly reflected. Are you sure those weren't just misses for you?

The fixpack only adds missing projectiles, but since you tested with many already on the list, that doesn't change anything:

I think all forms of "bouncy" opcodes (#197, #199, #200, #203, #207 #227, #228 probably the unused #198 as well) got buggier on the original engine after ToB expansion and before ToB-Ex, it's well known that the directional mirror animation plays for only a single frame but sometimes they will absorb without reflection and when this happens also fail to count the levels captured for the types of bounce opcodes that are supposed to reflect only a limited number (#200, #227, #228). Iirc it can still happen with EE.

[Guest Otyugh]

It feels like you're describing a different issue though: In my case it's not sometimes that there won't be a reflection, it's never, or at least I couldn't create a situation where it would reflect.

What you're talking about rings a bell in EE, where multiple reflexible projectiles hitting in quick succession will only translate to one projectile thrown back and the rest deflected. Spell trap and similar spells can be overwhelmed the same. But this is a pretty reliable phenomenon.

Does anyone know if Beamdog's GoG release of the original edition has fixes beyond Bioware's last patch 2.5.26498? Or is anyone able to test on a non-Beamdog release to see if they get Lynx's results or mine?

[lynx]

The gog version doesn't have any extra fixes in that sense (nor was it made by Beamdog). It definitely includes 26498, since there's a ReadMe_addon_patch.txt mentioning it.

[Bartimaeus]

Original 5 CD version of the game on the latest patch: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/gv31zua2udd1c6v/bgmain_FBgi0TYTCz.mp4

The strangest thing occurred here: although I spent a couple of minutes trying to get Physical Mirror to reflect the bolts, including with a reload, and nothing would do, they were just seemingly deflected. But the exact moment I ended the video, all of the bolts that Keldorn had fired suddenly all came back at once and hit him. I then reloaded the game, and all of them were being fired back at him as was expected...and then I reloaded again and once more, none of them were fired back. Uh...okay then. Then I tried the GOG version, and I started to think it would never work on the GOG version because I reloaded like ten times and they were never reflected...but it finally happened right as I was about to give up.

So...I don't know what to tell you guys, Physical Mirror's reflection predominantly did not work but rarely did with both versions of the game for me.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Guest Otyugh]

Well that was very helpful, thanks :)
Maybe that's what Polytope meant when talking about the one-frame thing?

Either way this rang a bell related to Spell Shield. In 2.5.26498, Spell Shield can endlessly block magic attacks without ever being destroyed. To trigger the bug one would start a game, check if it's being destroyed, if yes reload until it's not. Then all other Spell Shield within that loaded game (maybe don't change maps though, dunno) would be unbreakable if I recall correctly (needs double checking). Though everyone here knows, easy access to a reference never hurts: Spell Shield uses effect 226 "Spell type deflection".

The chance to get a working Spell Shield is not low though, I won't venture a probability but it can really go either way upon a reload. With the Reflection Shield I tried 3 test sessions and got the same outcome all three times (deflection), but now that I could make the connection with the Spell Shield bug I reloaded a bunch of times and yeah, it seems to behave like Spell Shield in that regard: Either it'll work as expected or it'll be persistently bugged. Both Spell Shield and the Reflection Shield were not synced though, one working correctly didn't allow predicting the other's state.

So what, deflection and reflection effects do deflect without bug, but then their own personal reaction (reflect, decrement a counter, ...) occurs and this is what might be bugged? And whether or not it's gonna be bugged depends on something that's executed only on rare occasions, such as upon loading the game? It's possible that what you did when stopping the video triggered the code like a reload would, though if you got all projectiles back in your face at once, maybe there's a queue of "things to react upon" and it's that one that fails to be processed. I can't reproduce this though, since I haven't looked for a way other than a reload to trigger the code we're interested in.

 

PS: Thanks for the reply on the GoG release!