Ranged Physical Damage Comparisons

[morpheus562]

4 minutes ago, lynx said:

He was commenting on the y-axis, not x (re quote 1 and 3). And yeah, standard presentation traps.

It would be obvious the differences are tiny if the axis started at 0 or whatever good base value would be.

Except the differences are not tiny. There is a 76dpr difference between the bottom and top damage dealers (that's over 20% of the top performers damage). There is a 71dpr difference between a gesen bow Archer and the kensai with firetooth, and that gap is going to widen with a different ammo type being used.

[lynx]

The chart makes that difference seem like 400%, not 20%.

[morpheus562]

1 minute ago, lynx said:

The chart makes that difference seem like 400%, not 20%.

Not true at all, and the 20% difference is not tiny. Current y axis gets the data present so it is easily viewed and understandable to the audience. I'm curious with the number of people commenting to the negative, how many of them have either taken any statistics classes or created these types of graphics professionally to illustrate program metrics to executive and senior level leadership? I have done and do both.

[suy]

The differences would be tinier, but IMHO, not tiny. I've had the Y axis always adjust automatically for about 4 years, and I've never felt the need to set the minimum to zero. The axis have clear values, and so do the data points. I'll consider adding the option of adjusting all the axis details, but it would just squish the lines and labels a lot in cases like this.

[suy]

7 minutes ago, lynx said:

The chart makes that difference seem like 400%, not 20%.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. The values are very clearly indicated, and morpheus even typed the numbers first...

[morpheus562]

2 minutes ago, suy said:

The differences would be tinier, but IMHO, not tiny. I've had the Y axis always adjust automatically for about 4 years, and I've never felt the need to set the minimum to zero. The axis have clear values, and so do the data points. I'll consider adding the option of adjusting all the axis details, but it would just squish the lines and labels a lot in cases like this.

I'd recommend against the effort to do that. The values are accurately defined and people just get hurt when their preferred class doesn't perform. 

[lynx]

28 minutes ago, morpheus562 said:

Not true at all, and the 20% difference is not tiny. Current y axis gets the data present so it is easily viewed and understandable to the audience. I'm curious with the number of people commenting to the negative, how many of them have either taken any statistics classes or created these types of graphics professionally to illustrate program metrics to executive and senior level leadership? I have done and do both.

Are you seriously going the "appeal to authority" route?

[morpheus562]

Just now, lynx said:

Are you seriously going the "appeal to authority" route?

You're stating very incorrectly that it looks like a 400% difference in damage and that the damage difference is tiny. Neither is accurate. I'm sorry this doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse of skills, but reading a quick article regarding statistics doesn't make one an expert or even knowledgeable in the subject matter. 

[lynx]

Ah yes, attacking me personally is going to convince me.

[morpheus562]

Just now, lynx said:

Ah yes, attacking me personally is going to convince me.

It's not a personal attack if it's clear you don't have the experience or a background in statistics or data/metric presentation. If you want to contribute productively, then please present coherent points with accurate data instead of overly conflated or superfluous statements.

 

[lynx]

Doubling down, perfect. Textbook stuff. You're really making the case for meaningful engagement.

Tufte wouldn't be proud.

[morpheus562]

@lynxat this point, you're trolling. Please either contribute productively or go somewhere else.

[morpheus562]

Gesen Archer got a nerf and is now down to 275.5 DPR. I replaced the Arrows of Piercing with Acid Arrows since the Acid Arrows will not have a chance to negate damage, unlike the Arrows of Piercing.

[Magus]

Ooh, drama. It's right there on wikipedia. Seriously, though, cognitive distortions work even when people are aware of them.

// nerd mode off

As for mitigating kensai, "ken" stands for "sword", not dagger nor axe. I think a reasonable lore-friendly tweak would be to limit kensai to 2 pips in non-sword specialities.

Anyway, archers are still more versatile with their variety of arrows.

[morpheus562]

4 minutes ago, Magus said:

Ooh, drama. It's right there on wikipedia. Seriously, though, cognitive distortions work even when people are aware of them.

// nerd mode off

As for mitigating kensai, "ken" stands for "sword", not dagger nor axe. I think a reasonable lore-friendly tweak would be to limit kensai to 2 pips in non-sword specialities.

Anyway, archers are still more versatile with their variety of arrows.

You are using Wikipedia as a source? The truncated graph used in their example only showed a difference of 4% change between smallest to largest, not a 25% + difference that is being shown in these graphs. There is a big difference (100dpr) between a gesen bow Archer and a fire tooth dagger Kensai.