stealth and thieving in heavy armor

[Qualidor]

The Big Metal Unit is a blight on the game of BGII. Let us never speak of it again.

 

Now, onto more serious issues.

 

The White Dragon Plate was hideously overpowered considering how crap white dragons are compared to every other type of dragon. Great AC, light AND Cone of Cold x3? Come on.

 

Realistically, the Blue Dragon Plate should be the most powerful since Abazigal is both a dragon and a child of Bhaal. Firkraag's is probably next courtesy of his age - seems that he is the oldest dragon (fighting a young Gorion and companions and all that). Also, red dragons are the most powerful evil dragons.

 

Also - the Firecam armour was usable by Monks when the game first shipped. Has that been changed?

[SimDing0]

I'd like a tweak that makes the Big Metal Unit crash the game.

[Idobek]

Firecam armour was usable by Monks when the game first shipped. Has that been changed?

This is fixed by Baldurdash.

 

I will most likely make all dragon scale armors scale mail armors with varying enchantment levels and dragon appropriate resistances.

 

I'll up the Shadow Armor's Hide in Shadows bonus so there is still a bonus once the penalties have been applied.

 

The Corthala Family Armor appears to be Elven Chain +3 usable by Stalkers with a mass of extra bonuses. I haven't decided how to deal with this yet. My initial (and preferred) thoughts on the are to drop the armor down to studded leather and scrap the Hide in Shadows, Move Silently and Miscast Magic penalities imposed by the tweak pack. Unfortunately this means a drop in AC, I could compensate for this by changing the Corthala Family Blade to give a full AC bonus instead of just a bonus against slashing weapons. (Another option here is "do nothing", I am not sure this is a tweak pack thing.)

 

Thoughts, opinions?

[SimDing0]

I don't see why Shadow Armour needs to convey a bonus. Just... no penalty.

[Idobek]

I don't see why Shadow Armour needs to convey a bonus. Just... no penalty.

Good point.

[the bigg]

I'd like a tweak that makes the Big Metal Unit crash the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Add an undocumented

ALWAYS BEGIN
COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP ~secret.*\.itm~ ~override~
 DELETE_BYTES 0 1
BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES
END

to all your mods if you can't think of a way to do this.

 

Even better, have the BMU start the quest in TDD (the one based on the town looking like Beregost and featuring Artemis Entreri), only that a mis-placed variable makes it so that the oh-so-cute-and-short cutscene loops

[Drew]

I'd like a tweak that makes the Big Metal Unit crash the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aww, come on, Sim! The Big metal unit is already useless. And it's supposed to be an Easter Egg anyway. You can't tell me you didn't have a few belly laughs the first time you read the description, can you?

[Andyr]

I heard Sim doesn't have a sense of humour.

[Qualidor]

Couldn't it at least have been a more utile easter egg?

 

Say, for instance, a personality transplant for Anomen if you're not romancing him?

[SimDing0]

I never laugh.

[CamDawg]

My thinking on the various dragon armors was to treat them exactly as described. Shadow dragon armor is described as leather, and treated as such. The red and white dragon armors are scale, so they get the stiff thieving (and casting) penalties of scale, whereas the blue dragon armor is plate. I never really wanted to address why (presumably) similar materials from four dragons were made into three different armor types. My default answer of Bioware laziness/sloppiness is probably correct, though they may have wanted to differentiate the armors somewhat.

 

Valygar's armor is closer to regular chain than elven chain. My first thought was also that it's elven, but the various resistances to damage types is more consistent with standard chain, so it received those penalties.

 

When I first coded this, my thoughts were to be as general and abstract as possible with the penalties and avoid case-by-case assessments (other than categorizing the armor by type). I can see the case for making exceptions for a few of these 'edge' cases.

[WizWom]

My thinking on the various dragon armors was to treat them exactly as described. Shadow dragon armor is described as leather, and treated as such. The red and white dragon armors are scale, so they get the stiff thieving (and casting) penalties of scale, whereas the blue dragon armor is plate. I never really wanted to address why (presumably) similar materials from four dragons were made into three different armor types. My default answer of Bioware laziness/sloppiness is probably correct, though they may have wanted to differentiate the armors somewhat.

 

Valygar's armor is closer to regular chain than elven chain. My first thought was also that it's elven, but the various resistances to damage types is more consistent with standard chain, so it received those penalties.

 

When I first coded this, my thoughts were to be as general and abstract as possible with the penalties and avoid case-by-case assessments (other than categorizing the armor by type). I can see the case for making exceptions for a few of these 'edge' cases.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, wait a second, Scale Mail has AC6 base, so the Red Dragon Scale Mail is +8?

Um, no. It is +5 Plate Mail, made from Red Dragon Scales (over, one would suppose, magical chain - my choice would be that nice Crimson Chain +5).

Or, because they show it as full body, really, I guess it qualifies as +4 Field Plate.

The Scales Would be layered and riveted into plates, mounted on enchanted chain, that whole sort of thing. Which would, really, be an awfully arduous process, since you can't just bash them into shape with a hammer. Very expert craftsmanship, If you ask me. Amazing to get it done in a day :-) Or a time-warp day where no world time passes.

[WizWom]

And another thing: why did you guys Nerf Drrow chainmails? 50% casting failure on an armor that allows casting normally unpatched??? And you Desc. of Dark Elven chain +5 is off; it doesn't match the stats on thieving. And, to top it off, since it already had theiving penalties, why did you change them?

 

And it looks like you nerfed Elven chain, too.

 

In fact, you gave all the elven chains 50% spell failure, while chain +3 has on 30%. GRRR.

[CamDawg]

So, wait a second, Scale Mail has AC6 base, so the Red Dragon Scale Mail is +8?

Um, no.  It is +5 Plate Mail, made from Red Dragon Scales (over, one would suppose, magical chain - my choice would be that nice Crimson Chain +5).

This is a good point--I'm not really sure why I picked it as scale initially. (Keep in mind, this was about two years ago.) It's either a full plate +2 or a plate +4; it's hard to decide since it's been cloned from ankheg plate (same wacky slashing/piercing/missile resists). Plate seems reasonable given the light weight of the item.

 

And you Desc. of Dark Elven chain +5 is off; it doesn't match the stats on thieving.

Fixed locally.

 

In fact, you gave all the elven chains 50% spell failure, while chain +3 has on 30%.  GRRR.

Wow, that's a fairly substantial bug--there shouldn't be any penalties for elven chain, drow or otherwise. This'll be fixed for the next version.

[WizWom]

So, wait a second, Scale Mail has AC6 base, so the Red Dragon Scale Mail is +8?

Um, no.  It is +5 Plate Mail, made from Red Dragon Scales (over, one would suppose, magical chain - my choice would be that nice Crimson Chain +5).

This is a good point--I'm not really sure why I picked it as scale initially. (Keep in mind, this was about two years ago.) It's either a full plate +2 or a plate +4; it's hard to decide since it's been cloned from ankheg plate (same wacky slashing/piercing/missile resists). Plate seems reasonable given the light weight of the item.

Interesting thing: I was browsing about, found the 2ND edition Monster Manual online:

 

http://mmadnd.chat.ru/MM00053.htm

 

Seems to indicate that dragon armor is just very good hide armor. Or perhaps Leather. And the armor is wrong; Firkragg's Natural AC is -11; that would give armor made from his old hide AC -7 base Dragon Hide Armor. With no Fire Resistence. And heaven forbid you then enchanted it; it would be -10 with just a +3.

 

Of course, to have that -11 AC, he should be nearly 300' long; I don't think he's quite that big an old Wyrm. Heh, his graphic is only an 80' dragon. A can understand them not wanting to make him TOO big, :-) But his Level, AC and HP, MR, and Spells indicate he's a Great Red Wyrm over 1200 years old with Max HP.

 

So, actually, the game makers cheated the characters, with Cromwell making very crappy armor from FirKragg's old hide.

 

But, anyway, I think the theiving penalties should be those of Hide or Hard Leather Armor.