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Nim

Haste/Oil of Speed giving only a half Attack more

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While testing some things regarding Attacks per Round I recognized that some NPCs didn't get a full extra Attack per round as they should per the Haste/Oil of Speed description. So after some further testing I came up with the following:

 

Base Attack......Hasted.......Should be

.....1.....................2

....1,5...................2.................2,5

.....2.....................3

....2,5...................3.................3,5

.....3.....................4

....3,5...................4.................4,5

.....4.....................5

....4,5...................5.................5,5

.....5.....................6

 

Can anyone please confirm or deny this ? Neither Baldurdash nor any forums I know mention this behaviour and it seems unlikely that noone got that in all the years :)

 

Oh, and sorry for that mess but I couldn't get the Left/Center/Right Codes to behave the way i wanted :thumbsup:

Nim

Edited by Nim

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You said "some NPCs". Could you do some testing for me? Try Hasting a NPC with warrior class (eg Minsc) and a NPC with a rogue class (eg Yoshimo). I suspect that only warriors will get the full benefits of extra attacks.

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I suspect that only warriors will get the full benefits of extra attacks.

Unfortunately it's not that simple :thumbsup: Start a new SoA game, get Imoen(she has a Haste spell memorised) and Jaheira. Let Imoen wield a Dagger or a QuarterStaff => 1 ApR and Jahs a Club => 1,5 ApR. Now haste them. Both will get 2 ApR.

 

I tested this on a clean Soa+ToB+ToB-Patch install and under Tutu.

 

Remember that besides Warrior-classes (single/DC/MC) only Thieves and Bards with UAI can get an additional half-attack ( Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialisation ). Everyone else can only get 'full' numbers of attacks and there this 'bug' doesn't apply.

 

PS: There seems to be an additional bug with ApR and ToB, but I will have to look further into that before I'll say more on that.

 

Nim

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Remember that besides Warrior-classes (single/DC/MC) only Thieves and Bards with UAI can get an additional half-attack ( Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialisation ).

You're sure the rogues get that extra half-attack?

 

Anyway, I think it is largely irrelevant as it is an engine bug we can't fix easily. Haste and the Oil of Speed use a special Haste opcode, evidently it only works in whole numbers, perhaps we should alter the descriptions instead. (Unless anyone has any hacky ideas for getting around it.)

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You're sure the rogues get that extra half-attack?

Yes, they get it, though I should have tested it before posting and not after :thumbsup:

 

Anyway, I think it is largely irrelevant as it is an engine bug we can't fix easily. Haste and the Oil of Speed use a special Haste opcode, evidently it only works in whole numbers, perhaps we should alter the descriptions instead.

Still, it would be great if it could be done.

 

(Unless anyone has any hacky ideas for getting around it.)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the probability to get a solution be greater if I posted this on some public and more frequented forums like PPG, FW, IW or SP than this hidden subforum ? Or are all the 'l33t modderz' registered here and have access to the fixpack forums ?

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Yes, they get it, though I should have tested it before posting and not after

Huh. I could have sworn there were larger hard-coded issue with extra attacks. I'm probably misremembering.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the probability to get a solution be greater if I posted this on some public and more frequented forums like PPG, FW, IW or SP than this hidden subforum ? Or are all the 'l33t modderz' registered here and have access to the fixpack forums ?

For hackery purposes I'd have to go with option 2. :thumbsup:

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Huh. I could have sworn there were larger hard-coded issue with extra attacks. I'm probably misremembering.

Thinking of the Swashbucklers missing half Attack when specialized perhaps ?

 

Re Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialisation:

If you're not proficient with a weapon, you don't get the lvl 7 and lvl 13 fighter-class half attack.

But the Gauntlets don't follow that rule, they always give a half attack more, whether proficient or not.

 

Perhaps you or someone else could take an indepth look at that difference, mayhaps it could help with the Swashbucklers missing (?) half attack( one can always dream, hmm :thumbsup: )

 

Concerning another bug with Attacks per Round and ToB-created Chars, shall I make a new thread or post it into this one ?

 

Nim

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Make a new one. Let's try to keep to one bug per thread.

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You're sure the rogues get that extra half-attack?

Yes, they get it, though I should have tested it before posting and not after :thumbsup:

 

Anyway, I think it is largely irrelevant as it is an engine bug we can't fix easily. Haste and the Oil of Speed use a special Haste opcode, evidently it only works in whole numbers, perhaps we should alter the descriptions instead.

Still, it would be great if it could be done.

 

(Unless anyone has any hacky ideas for getting around it.)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the probability to get a solution be greater if I posted this on some public and more frequented forums like PPG, FW, IW or SP than this hidden subforum ? Or are all the 'l33t modderz' registered here and have access to the fixpack forums ?

 

The vast majority of the WeiDU ninjas have access to this forum.

 

Altering the descriptions should be fairly easy. Can anyone suggest a new description?

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I don't think it's really something that can be fixed. When a character has their attacks split over two rounds, it looks like they get an extra half attack per round (according to the chart, 3/2 becomes 4/2, etc.). It's debatable whether this constitutes a full extra attack, but all the Haste-fu is hard-coded, so I'm not sure how much anyone would want to do (it may be possible to work around with scripting and whatnot, but it'd be a really ugly hack).

 

The easiest thing to do would just be to remove any "per round" text from the descriptions.

Edited by devSin

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