Morpheus562's Mods Removed?

[herien_0]

I think if Morpheus were actually vindictive against Angel than he would have prohibited each of his mods as opposed to exclusively isolating MiHEQ.

[Angel]

On 6/4/2024 at 10:19 PM, subtledoctor said:

At this point I'm mostly hoping to passive-aggressively influence Angel to add marker files to his mod! 

You could, you know, try actually talking to me.  I'm not hard to find.

And you might want to look in the deceptively named folder weidu_external/markers after installing my mods.  Or DavidW's for that matter.

 

I would like to add here that Morpheus' statement about MiH EQ is full of utter lies.  I don't "hide" anything.  I'm using exactly the same library that is used by Sword Coast Stratagems, Talents of Faerun, Wheels of Prophesy and a bunch of other mods by DavidW, none of which Morpheus is blocking out.  Or any of my other mods, which all use the very same library.  This is just him seeking an excuse for his own atrocious behavior.

I should probably never have publicly released MiH: EQ.

Edited June 18 by Angel

[megrimlock]

33 minutes ago, Angel said:

I should probably never have publicly released MiH: EQ.

Yes, you should have - it's cool.

[alaisFcZ]

it is really bad news not to be able to use MiH: EQ with tactical remix .... they are mods that give very good replayability T_T             

Edited June 18 by alaisFcZ
spelling problems

[Connelly]

You can easily install the pre SCS components of Tactics Remix before MiH: EQ. Rendering the whole brouhaha moot for the new encounters, really.

The post SCS components (the encounter improvements) is an actual issue, but IIRC as I understand, the greater part of the (intermod) conflict is between the dragon improvement components of each mod, which honestly... we wouldn't be talking about this particular matter to begin with if the only install check was made between those components, instead of the whole mod. Or just leave the responsibility to the player for not bothering to consider that maybe two similar modifications may not mix well together.

2 hours ago, Angel said:

I should probably never have publicly released MiH: EQ.

Don't, MiH: EQ is a nicey modie and we're grateful for it. :P

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Angel said:

You could, you know, try actually talking to me.  I'm not hard to find.

And you might want to look in the deceptively named folder weidu_external/markers after installing my mods.  Or DavidW's for that matter.

I would like to add here that Morpheus' statement about MiH EQ is full of utter lies.  I don't "hide" anything.

Okay, listen. Breathe. Be calm. I am sitting here cracking mild jokes, I am smiling, I am not using disrespectful language or lying. Okay? I am friendly.

You are seeming very serious, and not very friendly, and unhappy. It was not my intent to make you unhappy.

If we are to engage: I am currently finishing up a pretty big install, which has 27 MiH components installed (15 from MiH_EQ, 12 from MiH_IP). In weidu_external/markers, there are exactly two MiH marker files. That doesn't quite add up.

This is constructive feedback! Go read AL|EN ranting about LABEL. The dude is an evangelist. He can be annoying sometimes. But at the end of the day he is right. It is broadly useful for mods to use indelible indications of what they have installed, and it is not very time-consuming to do it. It took me a long time to come around and add LABEL to my mods - and admittedly, some still don't have it! But it is a good idea.

I am not demanding anything of you, I am not antagonizing you, I am not lying or accusing you of hiding anything. (Honestly I'm not even sure what that is in reference to - as I said up-thread, I missed this entire drama.) I am just casually saying, modder to modder, "hey, that's probably a good idea." That's it.

[Angel]

7 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Okay, listen. Breathe. Be calm. I am sitting here cracking mild jokes, I am smiling, I am not using disrespectful language or lying. Okay? I am friendly.

You are seeming very serious, and not very friendly, and unhappy. It was not my intent to make you unhappy.

You start passive-aggressive to me, you get passive-aggressive back.  Try considering the impact of your words next time.  Several people have already called you out on this.

I'm always serious when people give me shit for no good reason, especially on something I did for free in my own time.  I would be happy if people stopped working on my nerves.

7 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

If we are to engage: I am currently finishing up a pretty big install, which has 27 MiH components installed (15 from MiH_EQ, 12 from MiH_IP). In weidu_external/markers, there are exactly two MiH marker files. That doesn't quite add up.

I have just completed a full install of all my mods.  There are more than 40 markers with my signature in that directory.  Some older versions may use dw# (DavidW) markers because I use his library and there are some subtleties to it that I still have to learn, I would have to check on that.

angel@phoenix ~/ie_games/bg1ee $ ls -1 weidu_external/markers/mh#* | wc -l
47

 

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

This is constructive feedback! Go read AL|EN ranting about LABEL. The dude is an evangelist. He can be annoying sometimes. But at the end of the day he is right. It is broadly useful for mods to use indelible indications of what they have installed, and it is not very time-consuming to do it. It took me a long time to come around and add LABEL to my mods - and admittedly, some still don't have it! But it is a good idea.

Yes, he has pestered me about it a couple of times.  I don't take well to being annoyed, especially when I'm supposed to be having fun.  I may do it, in my own time.  I already got enough flak about adding stuff for PI which I can't even use at all.

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I am not demanding anything of you, I am not antagonizing you, I am not lying or accusing you of hiding anything. (Honestly I'm not even sure what that is in reference to - as I said up-thread, I missed this entire drama.) I am just casually saying, modder to modder, "hey, that's probably a good idea." That's it.

Someone quoted Morpheus' reasons for doing what he did in which he accused me of lying, hiding my code and being uncooperative.  All after I told him to stop bothering me about a problem that was, by DavidW's own words, a problem with SCS and not my mod, and he apparently has an issue with me using SFO, which is the same library DavidW uses for all his mods, but apparently it's wrong if I do it.  The guy is a narcissistic idiot.

Sorry, but I don't react well to such things.  This whole drama has almost caused me to abandon this whole thing entirely, I've really had it up to here with this shit.

[Cahir]

39 minutes ago, Angel said:

Yes, he has pestered me about it a couple of times.  I don't take well to being annoyed, especially when I'm supposed to be having fun.  I may do it, in my own time.  I already got enough flak about adding stuff for PI which I can't even use at all.

Man, you really should take a break from modding, to get some perspective. Seems that everyone is working on your nerves lately. If you find asking about something as pestering, then yeah... it's no good for neither your nor others well-being.

One cannot even say anything to you, because you find it passive-aggresive or a pestering. I don't want to pick sides on any side with your conflict with Morpheus, cause I don't care which fault it was. All I know you both could handle in a much more mature way. But you keep picking fights with new people, and that won't take you anywhere. 

I respect your work, I find your knowledge of Faerun lore exemplary, but you really start sounding like you are feeling stressed being here, replying to "all those annoying people, who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about."

Really sorry for my rant, I am not a person who usually comment heated conversations between other people, but you really should not treat everyone else as enemies.

 

EDIT: And no, I'm not your enemy. Just saying.

Edited June 19 by Cahir

[Guest Despicable him]

23 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Man, you really should take a break from modding

Morpheus minion strike again...

 

Maybe you should take a break from things that are not your buissness and don't pretend to know how people should react.

[Angel]

52 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Man, you really should take a break from modding, to get some perspective. Seems that everyone is working on your nerves lately. If you find asking about something as pestering, then yeah... it's no good for neither your nor others well-being.

I'm just back from a hiatus of several months after Morpheus' shenanigans.  You want me to take another?

52 minutes ago, Cahir said:

One cannot even say anything to you, because you find it passive-aggressive or a pestering. I don't want to pick sides on any side with your conflict with Morpheus, cause I don't care which fault it was. All I know you both could handle in a much more mature way. But you keep picking fights with new people, and that won't take you anywhere.

Read again what Subtledoctor actually wrote.  Here it is again:

Quote

At this point I'm mostly hoping to passive-aggressively influence Angel to add marker files to his mod!

I'm not the one picking fights.  I have not made any demands from anyone at any time, and I'm not going to start now.

If you don't know what happened and don't want to pick sides, then don't judge me.

52 minutes ago, Cahir said:

I respect your work, I find your knowledge of Faerun lore exemplary, but you really start sounding like you are feeling stressed being here, replying to "all those annoying people, who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about."

Yes, I am stressed for the endless shit I get for being nice enough to share something I wrote completely for my own personal use.  I'm getting more and more convinced that was a mistake on my part.  I should just have kept quiet.

52 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Really sorry for my rant, I am not a person who usually comment heated conversations between other people, but you really should not treat everyone else as enemies.

EDIT: And no, I'm not your enemy. Just saying.

If I considered you or anyone here my enemy, you'd already be blocked.  I don't waste time talking to enemies.

I'm in constant physical pain and mental stress due to a number of reasons that nobody including myself can do anything about, taking a break isn't going to change that.  And as others already noted, I'm the only one who never demanded anything from anyone.  My mods aren't compatible with SR, IR, most of IWDification, some of Tweaks Anthology and most likely ToF, and probably a whole bunch of other things.  You don't see me bothering the authors over that.  I leave it to them if, how and when they deal with that.

All I want is some basic courtesy and a little respect for dedicating my own personal time and effort to writing what I write without asking anything in return.  If you want to see something in my mods or think something can be improved, try asking me nicely and you might get a much better response.  Several people have done so and have never gotten any flak from me at all, and I granted their requests on several occasions.  But bluntly tell me what to do and I'll bluntly tell you where to stick it.  That's all there is to it.

Edited June 19 by Angel

[Jarno Mikkola]

57 minutes ago, Cahir said:

One cannot even say anything to you, because you find it passive-aggresive or a pestering.

You do know that STD said himself that he was passive aggressive, and then I throw the wrech into the passive wheel. Cause it sounded very much aggressive, and he continues it on so many fronts.

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Angel said:

Read again what Subtledoctor actually wrote.

Holy shit dude. Could you not tell that was a joke? I was trying to make people chuckle, to lighten the mood a bit. Because Jesus, does the mood need lightening. Here’s how you could tell: I added a fuckin laughing emoji at the end of the sentence you quoted. Which you conspicuously, intentionally removed when quoting. Should I conclude that you are being disingenuous? Because that’s what it seems like.

We are in a text-only forum of communication. There is no tone of voice to modulate, no body language to be interpreted, no backs to slap or drinks to clink. Only bare words. It is this best to take people at their word. If someone goes out of their way to say “please take this in a friendly way” and you claim they were being unfriendly, then perhaps you are the one acting disrespectfully. 

Now hang on, I need to step out for a minute…

…Okay, I put on a suit of Full Plate +2. Now for more constructive criticism! 

4 hours ago, Angel said:

I am stressed for the endless shit I get for being nice enough to share something I wrote completely for my own personal use

You think you are the first one to feel that…! Congratulations, you published a mod. People like it, people praise you for it, you have validation that your ideas are good, and you get respect and inclusion in the modding community (to some degree, depending on the whims of the ‘in’ crowd). But you also get (sometimes unfair) criticism and pestering. It goes with the territory. Ask me how I know.

4 hours ago, Angel said:

My mods aren't compatible with SR, IR, most of IWDification, some of Tweaks Anthology and most likely ToF, and probably a whole bunch of other things.  You don't see me bothering the authors over that.  I leave it to them if, how and when they deal with that.

You aren’t helping them either, though. If someone says “I love MiH EQ and I want my dragons mod to be compatible with MiH Revised Dragons! But I would need to make specific patches designed for MiH dragons, so it would be great of MiH could note some way for me to detect in my code whether MiH Revised Dragons is installed!” That takes one line in a Readme or .tp2 file. It is not a major imposition, considering the other modder is the one doing all the substantive work on compatibility. 

That’s not allegory. Not talking about Morpheus. I don’t like allegory. I’m saying, within the bounds of the hypothetical, you can see how that nice other modder’s suggestion is reasonable, right? …Right? (I’m throwing you a softball, here.)

Okay, here comes the part where I piss off the in crowd by criticizing their god:

5 hours ago, Angel said:

may use dw# (DavidW) markers because I use his library and there are some subtleties to it that I still have to learn

Respectfully, SCS may not be the best mod to emulate. SCS is great, don’t get me wrong. But it is designed from a particular point of view - for instance, DavidW doesn’t play with anyone else's mods. Stop and think about how unusual that is. Every modder I can think of around here respects and enjoys the work of other modders. Except DavidW. It’s honestly kind of weird. And it has visible consequences - DavidW has a tendency to reinvent wheels, to eschew conventions, etc. It doesn’t make SCS bad - SCS is good! But for a relative newcomer, it is not something I would suggest they emulate. 

Also, DavidW is (if I’m not mistaken) a trained programmer. The code he puts out is more complex than that in most mods. It can be good… most of the time… but any artisan (nofuckingpunintended) will tell you, use the right tool for the job. I mentioned elsewhere, the MiH Item Pack - an item pack! - took me longer to install than all of SCS. Two hours pushing my CPU to punishingly hot temps, fans blazing, coulda-been-rich-mining-bitcoin, to install an item pack. That should not take two hours, or twenty minutes, or two minutes or even twenty seconds. It should take two seconds. 

I installed it anyway, partly because I forgot how bad the install process is, but also because your product is good! I actually like it! I am not judging your work or making demands, I am giving constructive criticism (you do know what that is, right? <- asked earnestly, some folks around here are from different cultures and languages) - maybe SFO is simply not the best tool for that job. 

Like, bringing this back around to the issue at hand: if I say it might be easier to fire-and-forget 

LABEL ~MIH_REVISED_DRAGONS~

than to implement 

angel@phoenix ~/ie_games/bg1ee $ ls -1 weidu_external/markers/mh#* | wc -l 47

and it doesn’t work because there are “subtleties you have to learn,” and even if it did work it is not visible to other modders… maybe I am saying that to be helpful, not to be a dick. If I say I also had AL|EN haranguing me and I also found it annoying, maybe I am trying to identify with your perspective and communicate that you are not alone in your feelings - not trying to be a dick. 

Maybe if you show a bit more grace to the people around you, you would find that they are not in fact out to antagonize you. 

This is just food for thought. Do with it what you will. 

Edited June 19 by subtledoctor

[Jarno Mikkola]

K, so let's see how your Armor Of Understanding +2 holds:

Now, STD, that sounded far more constructive.
Maybe being example of what you want from others is a good first step. Let's see how it's received.

And yes, there's a tone in there, that's in the words.
And if someone out-quoted what you wrote, perhaps it's for a reason. Could it have been that they removed what their interpretated of you laughing at THEIR expence ? Thus trying to remove the insulting part of the whole... if they interpreted it that way. And yes, that was rhetorical, ...

Edited June 19 by Jarno Mikkola

[Brokenkatana]

Just jumping in to thank Angel for making two of the best mods out there with Encounters and Item Pack. Your work is appreciated. 

[megrimlock]

"DavidW has a tendency to reinvent wheels..."

@subtledoctor please don't discourage DavidW from reinventing Wheels, a lot of us are hoping he moves onto that next