Jump to content

Lossless Scaling


Guest The_Sextein

Recommended Posts

Guest The_Sextein

I found something pretty awesome and figured I'd share since I didn't see any talk about it.  If I'm mistaken then my apologies.  There is a program on steam called lossless scaling which I will link at the bottom of this post.  It allows you to use frame generation on any game.  This allows you to play Baldur's Gate at 60 or 90 FPS without the game being in fast "forward mode"  Not only that but you can use AI scaling such as FSR.  You can choose bicubic or XBR among many others.  I prefer Nvidia's scaling with sharpening.

  What you need to do is turn off full screen mode in Baldur's gate so that it will not scale the game and then use lossless scaling to choose how you want to scale it.  I would recommend Nvidia's scaling option with it's sharpness setting cranked all the way up.  Set frame generation to X3 and use a custom scale factor of 1 with the "resize before scaling" enabled.  This will AI upscale the image with 4k levels of sharpness, denoise the image and boost the frame rate up to 90FPS.  If you want you can also enable DLDSR scaling in the Nvidia control panel and use the DSR smoothness settings to customize the clarity of the image to your liking.  If you really want to go all out you can set your desktop resolution to a custom DLDSR 2.5 setting which will render the game at a higher resolution than your monitor and then AI downscale it which will anti alias the sprites.  If you are willing to customize the color settings with the Nvidia control panel, you can even force HDR with lossless scaling and windows.  Pretty crazy to see this new tech and how it transforms the game.

Link to comment

I would love to see a recording of this. They don't have any video on Steam, and the videos I'm seeing on YouTube are of modern games, reaching even 120 FPS, which can't be shown in YouTube, as it's 60 FPS max. I would like to see a video where the game is old, and the FPS is very low (one could even try making the FPS very low on the IE, like half), then applying the upscaling/frame generation and see how it looks.

Link to comment
Guest the_sextein

Unfortunetly, any sharpening affects achieved through scaling are not going to show up in a screen shot.  The most noticeable difference is the frame generation because it makes the camera animation smoother and all of the fine details remain as you move the camera vs 30FPS where they become a blurry mess.  Sprite animations look 3x more smooth but it takes the same time for your character to walk from point A to point B.  They don't look speed up they are simply padded with AI generated frames in between the normal ones.  There are no visual flaws with the sprite animations but the fog of war can at times display a tiny amount of blur as it recedes for a millisecond.  AMD's FSR seems to be the fastest and slightly higher quality than the Nvidia option I was using last night.  I can't really show any media that would demonstrate it but it's very noticeable and lossless scaling costs about as much as a couple of taco's from Taco Bell so I would encourage people to give it a shot.  It can also double the speed of most modern games with frame generation and no visual flaws if you stay away from AI upscaling. 

Link to comment
Guest the_sextein

I've went through all options now and I can say with certainty that I won't be playing BG without this ever again.  Going back to the original game feels like a jittery mess and looks much worse.  I've settled with bicubic CAS scaling and max sharpness with DLDSR and 2x frame generation.  3x frame generation looks fine but the animations pack alot of movement and perhaps it's because I'm so used to how slow this game has been all these years but 2x feels less sudden when someone starts walking around.  I took a picture of the game but I can't tell if it will look better to anyone or not because my desktop is AI down sampled all the time.  

https://imgur.com/a/V8oubQq

Link to comment
Guest the_sextein

One last thing to clarify.  You should use DLDSR if you have the option and disable scaling in lossless scaling.  This will give you AI down sampling and zero visual trade off. If you don't have DLDSR in the Control panel or you are using AMD then I would use Lossless Scaling's Bicubic CAS setting.  Frame Generation will work on any game and it doesn't matter what GPU you own unless it's so old that even mid range GPU's from 4 years ago can outperform it.  Frame Generation does not need scaling to work so you have a few options.

Link to comment
On 6/14/2024 at 4:18 AM, Guest the_sextein said:

So, I decided to give it a shot, but I'm having some issues...
I set the app as you recommended, i.e.:

  • frame generation: X3
  • custom scale factor: 1
  • resize before scaling: enabled
  • scaling option: AMD FSR (with its sharpness setting cranked all the way up)

Thing is that:

  • FPS are still capped at 30 (the FPS counter shows something like 30/89)
  • the cursor speed also seems to be capped at 30 (it is not smooth...)

Are there other settings we should be aware of...?

Edited by Luke
Link to comment

Is the mentioned frame generation feature just frame interpolation, similar to the "motion smoothing" settings on many modern TVs that achieve the effect of making cinema look like soap operas? Always a rather ghastly-looking effect, if so. The description seems to mention that it makes use of machine learning (i.e. "AI") to generate said frames, so it might be more sophisticated than that, but I have a strong suspicion that I won't like it any better than ye olde interpolation.

Edited by Bartimaeus
Link to comment
Guest The_sextein

frame generation for games has no soap opera effect.  It's like playing at 60FPs while the game is running at 30.  Frame generation brings smoother motion and animation with higher detail retention under movement.  CGI cutscenes are also upgraded and run at 3x the frames making the production levels seem higher.  This tool can be used for watching movies or anime as well.

Link to comment
Guest the_sextein

It's literally called frame generation which isn't the same as traditional interpolation techniques like those on TV's that cause the soap opera effect.  @luke try going into the Baldur's Gate graphics settings and turning off hardware curser support.  Once it reverts back to software support, turn on curser frame generation in the lossless scaling app.  When it says 30/89 that is telling you that the game is locked at 30 internally and you are playing at 89FPS.  Try turning it off after you have used it for a few minutes and you will notice how laggy and blurry the original game is in comparison.

Link to comment
11 hours ago, Guest the_sextein said:

It's literally called frame generation which isn't the same as traditional interpolation techniques like those on TV's that cause the soap opera effect.  @luke try going into the Baldur's Gate graphics settings and turning off hardware curser support.  Once it reverts back to software support, turn on curser frame generation in the lossless scaling app.  When it says 30/89 that is telling you that the game is locked at 30 internally and you are playing at 89FPS.  Try turning it off after you have used it for a few minutes and you will notice how laggy and blurry the original game is in comparison.

It's a different technique, but it's still fake frames interpolated from real frames. Whether you accomplish it by motion interpolation, frame blending, or "AI", the idea is fundamentally the same. Having now tried Lossless Scaling on both Baldur's Gate as well as a variety of video files, I can confidently say that I don't like the effect, especially with video where it really does look exactly like the soap opera effect on what I tried (mostly animation as per your recommendation). But look... I'm one of those people that likes to artificially add film grain and constrain the color space of most things I watch via the video player that I use (i.e. something I can enable or disable on the fly), so that they go from looking like this...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/scl/fi/9i74occ5hh44sghb5or2x/mpc-hc64_MzSGIk8auL.mp4?rlkey=2y28wp7dzii6tfjhoqmoufjff&dl=0

...to this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/scl/fi/yf1i5d5d46r2ojw5oe8o2/mpc-hc64_qRn6xoWigT.mp4?rlkey=8j5h8bav9dd4lm4g4u11vbmdl&dl=0

...so I'm no stranger to liking fake effects. I get it. Fake frames that mess with motion has just never been one for me, that's all.

Edited by Bartimaeus
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...