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Can a God intervene directly in the fight between Charname and the final boss of ToB? (Spoilees)


Guest Sergio

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Guest Sergio

If you listen to what Cyric says, it's clear he cannot kill you directly. But he can do it indirectly, by challenging you.

Now i'm left wondering: does it mean that the Gods cannot kill bhaalspawns, or that they cannot intervene directly to do it? I'm for the second option.

If you think about it, you can become a strong favoured of a God (level 25 cleric and holy simbol). So definitely, Gods can help Bhaalspawn.

Would a God intervening against Amelyssan to help you be a strecth, then, if he favours you?

Luckily I think i've still got a way out kindly offered by Amelyssan in my mod.

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FWIW, I've always interpreted that to mean what you said - the gods can't (in this instance) smite you personally. However, they can, and have, sent their faithful to attempt it in their stead.

I don't consider that too controversial, since the PC or their clerics can call upon their god(s) during ToB for some pretty high-level favors.

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IIRC, Cyric says that Lord Ao told the rest of the pantheon to stay out of it and let the whole mess work itself out, for better and for worse. I interpreted it as the gods not being allowed to directly interfere either for or against you, but yes, mortals are still free to choose their own course - including those devoted to Cyric, or others. Though I personally feel that Cyric probably stepped over the line by personally teleporting assassins into the Throne of Blood without your permission...but seeing as he didn't seem to be punished for it, I suppose you could interpret another god doing something similar as being okay.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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There's another issue when it comes to the final battle. That battle takes place in the center of Bhaal's power. I have to imagine that any other god trying to intervene there would be at a severe disadvantage. Maybe even directly vulnerable if they chose to be there in person.

So, under those circumstances, sending a powerful follower looks much more reasonable.

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21 hours ago, maurvir said:

FWIW, I've always interpreted that to mean what you said - the gods can't (in this instance) smite you personally. However, they can, and have, sent their faithful to attempt it in their stead.

I don't consider that too controversial, since the PC or their clerics can call upon their god(s) during ToB for some pretty high-level favors.

I agree.

20 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

IIRC, Cyric says that Lord Ao told the rest of the pantheon to stay out of it and let the whole mess work itself out, for better and for worse. I interpreted it as the gods not being allowed to directly interfere either for or against you, but yes, mortals are still free to choose their own course - including those devoted to Cyric, or others. Though I personally feel that Cyric probably stepped over the line by personally teleporting assassins into the Throne of Blood without your permission...but seeing as he didn't seem to be punished for it, I suppose you could interpret another god doing something similar as being okay.

I agree as well. Though, I think that Cyric didn't overstep - he simply circumvented the order by not directly violating it. After all, if a God can give you powers and benefit you (e.g cleric, even if Bhaalspawn), why wouldn't it be possible to challenge you in some way?

17 hours ago, jmerry said:

There's another issue when it comes to the final battle. That battle takes place in the center of Bhaal's power. I have to imagine that any other god trying to intervene there would be at a severe disadvantage. Maybe even directly vulnerable if they chose to be there in person.

So, under those circumstances, sending a powerful follower looks much more reasonable.

Disadvantage of what? Are you talking about lore, or risks for Gods to be in the domain of other Gods? I would say that they are still God, even if their powers may be at risk. For the God I've added into my mod, there won't be many risks. In fact, Amelyssan did really wrong by angering him.

Edit: btw, Thanks to each one of you for the reply.

Edited by Sergio - ex SHS member
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3 hours ago, Sergio - ex SHS member said:

I agree as well. Though, I think that Cyric didn't overstep - he simply circumvented the order by not directly violating it. After all, if a God can give you powers and benefit you (e.g cleric, even if Bhaalspawn), why wouldn't it be possible to challenge you in some way?

I think I'd view the alternative - gods having to arbitrarily forsake devoted followers, including CHARNAME if they're a cleric/paladin - as being more of a kind of interference than the opposite, which is basically just business as usual, the god your character worships maintaining the same relationship you've always had with them. Similarly, it's not as though Mystra would try to deny CHARNAME or any of the other Bhaalspawn access to the Weave if they're arcane magic users because of Ao's decree of non-interference. Cyric directly plane-shifting assassins into your home plane, on the other hand...definitely not business as usual - if every god wanting to put their thumb on the scale to decide the outcome of the contest had decided to do that, things could sure get messy in a hurry. Cyric didn't do it in the final battle but as a part of those trials setup by the solar to test your godliness or whatever, so maybe it was a specifically allowed exception. I'm not sure.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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