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Are "Better calls for help" needed for IWDEE?


Guest Meme

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Guest Meme

"Smarter general AI and better calls for help (IWDEE)

This component is the Icewind Dale version of the Smarter General AI and Better Calls for Help components (for technical reasons they are combined). It mostly works quite similarly: the main difference is that Icewind Dale enemies have a wider variety of targeting preferences in combat."

I don't think this componenet is really needed for IWDEE. But sadly, atm it cannot work separately from the General AI improvements so I could choose to not install it. I'm disappointed cause it doesn't work properly imo, and that's an opinion which came from the very 1st case I saw it in practice: inside the Orc Cave outside of Easthaven. When I fought the 1st big group in the center of the cave, some enemies joined the fight from very far, most noticeably the Orc Shaman and 2-3 Orcs which sit in the north part of the cave. So after killing all the enemies of the big battle and moving north I met one Orc Elite who was standing on the crossroad, and after killing him and moving north-east to the top part of the cave, there were no enemies inside there. I believe those should have stayed in there and not have joined the battle in the center.

 

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Thanks for the feedback, and yes I agree that's a bug.

It's not technically possible (as the readme notes) to have the two parts install separately. It might be, though, that the call-for-help code can be trimmed down, since (as I think you have in mind) native call-for-help is much better in IWD than BG/BG2. I will have a look when I have a chance. (I've had fairly little detailed feedback on how SCS in IWD is working - it's very experimental - so always happy to get more.)

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Guest Meme

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, first of all I think that the native call-for-help is much better in IWD than in BG/BG2. Secondly, there are already plenty of enemies to fight in IWD dungeons. So that's why I think that maybe the SCS call-for-help isn't needed at all. But perhaps trimming it down could prove to be alright.

I was looking forward to try IWD with SCS cause I played it on Hard and Insane without XP boost and wanted to try something more challenging. But I got disappointed very soon by how this call-for-help feature works (the example I gave was the most glaring one, but there were finer details I could add from the same cave), and I didn't continue this playthrough. In case I change my mind and go on, I'll happily provide you with more feedback.

I'd also like to add something from my BG1EE experience: Personally, I find that the SCS call-for-help doesn't always make things harder for me. There are times when it's easier for my party to "stand their ground" and dispatch the enemies coming to them, than it would be to move forward and dispatch the enemies waiting for my party.

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15 hours ago, Guest Meme said:

I'd also like to add something from my BG1EE experience: Personally, I find that the SCS call-for-help doesn't always make things harder for me. There are times when it's easier for my party to "stand their ground" and dispatch the enemies coming to them, than it would be to move forward and dispatch the enemies waiting for my party.

The thing to realize about SCS is that it's not (or mostly not) designed to make the game harder as such, it's designed to make it more immersive. I wrote 'better calls for help' originally because it was just really unrealistic when one monster in a group moved forward and the rest didn't.

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Guest Kresselack

I want to add that I had the same behaviour for the Orc Cave but continued with this component. It is even more glaring in Kresselack's Tomb, the whole floor would aggro and funnel toward the party. It also seems to aggro groups in closed doors area and if you retreat one floor they start to follow, though I don't know if is due to SCS or EE. It is kind of a way to cheese fighting the enemies in a group. Otherwise I find the SCS change to work well, I have noticed an increase in enemies intelligence. I really like it, except for the whole aggro thing though I deal with it.

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