mickabouille Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) Maybe what I'll put here is just common knowledge, but I couldn't find anything conclusive about it. I was curious about what https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/files/2da/2da_bgee/thiefscl.htm had to say about the possible values you could put in. Or rather about what little was written about it. Apart from 0 and 100 (enable/disable), there was mention of putting 300 that"would" multiply by 3. But nothing about for example 50. I was wondering if you could have some handicap in some skill for kits for example (e.g. slower or faster gain). TLDR; This doesn't seem like it can be used for something useful (or maybe I don't see how). I seems the ratio is applied to the current skill point value each time the character enters the level-up screen (!!!). Say you level-up from level 5 to level 6 while having for example 'open locks' at 40 and the matching value in thiefscl.2da at 50, you're skill value will be set to 20 before you select your point. Then when levelling from 6 to 7, your 20 points (assuming you didn't put any more in 'open locks') will be replaced by 10 and so on. And using a "bigger than 100" value in thiefscl.2da does the same (growing each level up). Note 1: it's not multiplied at each level but rather at each level up (if you gain multiple level at once, you've got only one multiplication applied) Note 2: There's some difference between points 1. gained at level 1 or by selecting them at level-up 2. gained either because of initial DEX bonus or because of race. Those in 2. are not multiplied after the first time ; they are multiplied at character creation but not at level-up. Does that seem correct? Edited July 11 by mickabouille Quote Link to comment
mickabouille Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 (edited) # Preparation ## skilldex.2da Updated to say PICK_POCKETS OPEN_LOCKS FIND_TRAPS MOVE_SILENTLY HIDE_IN_SHADOWS DETECT_ILLUSION SET_TRAPS 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 ## skillrac.2da Changed so that PICK_POCKETS OPEN_LOCKS FIND_TRAPS MOVE_SILENTLY HIDE_IN_SHADOWS DETECT_ILLUSION SET_TRAPS HUMAN 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 DWARF 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 ## thiefskl Modified so that START_POINTS LEVEL_POINTS THIEF 0 10 SHADOWDANCER 0 20 ASSASIN 20 10 ## thiefscl Modified so that I have THIEF ASSASIN PICK_POCKETS 10 10 OPEN_LOCKS 20 20 FIND_TRAPS 50 50 MOVE_SILENTLY 100 100 HIDE_IN_SHADOWS 125 125 DETECT_ILLUSION 150 150 SET_TRAPS 200 200 STEALTH 0 0 # Make a human thief(pure) with 14 DEX ## bg1 start - level 1 - Char creation opens with 0 in each skill and no points to distribute. - In game, character sheet says : 0 points in each skill ## Level-up to 2 (+1250xp to 1250) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have 0 points in each skill. - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'move silently' After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 1 open locks 1 find traps 1 move silently 4 hide in shadows 1 detect ill 1 set traps 1 ## Level-up to 3 (+1250xp to 2500) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 0 move silently 4 hide in shadows 1 detect ill 1 set traps 2 - I put 5 points each in 'pick pockets' and 'open locks' - The character sheet now tells me I have pick pockets 5 open locks 5 find traps 0 move silently 4 hide in shadows 1 detect ill 1 set traps 2 ## Level-up to 4 (+2500xp to 5000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 0 open locks 1 find traps 0 move silently 4 hide in shadows 1 detect ill 1 set traps 4 - I put 2 point in 'open locks', 3 points in 'find traps' 2 points in both 'hide in shadows' and 'detect illusions' and 1 point in 'set traps' - The character sheet now tells me I have pick pockets 0 open locks 3 find traps 3 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 3 set traps 5 ## Level-up to 5 (+5000xp to 10000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 1 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 4 set traps 10 - I put 10 points in 'find traps' - The character sheet now tells me I have pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 11 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 4 set traps 10 ## Level-up to 7 (40000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 20 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 5 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 6 set traps 20 - I put 18points in 'pick pockets' and 2 points in 'find traps' - The character sheet now tells me I have pick pockets 18 open locks 0 find traps 7 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 6 set traps 20 ## Level-up to 8 (70000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 1 open locks 0 find traps 3 move silently 4 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 9 set traps 40 # Make a dwarf thief(pure) with 14 DEX I now have 20 skill points in each skill because I'm a dwarf. ## bg1 start - level 1 - Char creation opens with no points to distribute and pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 20 hide in shadows 25 detect ill 30 set traps 40 - In game, character sheet says pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 20 hide in shadows 25 detect ill 30 set traps 40 ## Level-up to 2 (1250) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 20 hide in shadows 25 detect ill 30 set traps 40 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 6 open locks 5 find traps 11 move silently 21 hide in shadows 26 detect ill 31 set traps 41 ## Level-up to 3 (2500) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 21 hide in shadows 26 detect ill 31 set traps 42 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 3 open locks 5 find traps 11 move silently 22 hide in shadows 27 detect ill 32 set traps 43 ## Level-up to 4 (5000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 22 hide in shadows 27 detect ill 33 set traps 46 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'hide in shadows' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 3 open locks 5 find traps 11 move silently 23 hide in shadows 31 detect ill 34 set traps 47 ## Level-up to 5 (10000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 2 open locks 4 find traps 10 move silently 23 hide in shadows 32 detect ill 36 set traps 54 # Make a human thief(pure) with 15 DEX I now have 10 skill points in each skill because of 15 DEX. ## bg1 start - level 1 - Char creation opens with no points to distribute, starting from pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 10 hide in shadows 12 detect ill 15 set traps 20 - In game, character sheet says pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 10 hide in shadows 12 detect ill 15 set traps 20 ## Level-up to 2 (1250) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 10 hide in shadows 12 detect ill 15 set traps 20 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 5 open locks 3 find traps 6 move silently 11 hide in shadows 13 detect ill 16 set traps 21 ## Level-up to 3 (2500) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 11 hide in shadows 13 detect ill 16 set traps 22 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 5 open locks 3 find traps 6 move silently 12 hide in shadows 14 detect ill 17 set traps 23 ## Level-up to 4 (5000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 12 hide in shadows 14 detect ill 18 set traps 26 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 2 open locks 3 find traps 6 move silently 13 hide in shadows 18 detect ill 19 set traps 27 ## Level-up to 5 (10000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I have pick pockets 1 open locks 2 find traps 5 move silently 13 hide in shadows 19 detect ill 21 set traps 34 # Make a human thief(assassin) with 14 DEX I now have 20 skill points in each skill because of the kit. ## bg1 start - level 1 - Char creation opens with 20 skill points to distribute, starting from 0 in each skill. - I put 3 points in each skill except 'move silently' where I only put 2 points. - The character sheet tells me I have pick pockets 3 open locks 3 find traps 3 move silently 2 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 3 set traps 3 ## Level-up to 2 (1250) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 1 move silently 2 hide in shadows 3 detect ill 4 set traps 6 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 4 open locks 1 find traps 2 move silently 3 hide in shadows 4 detect ill 5 set traps 7 ## Level-up to 3 (2500) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 1 move silently 3 hide in shadows 5 detect ill 7 set traps 14 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 4 open locks 1 find traps 2 move silently 4 hide in shadows 6 detect ill 8 set traps 15 ## Level-up to 4 (5000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 1 move silently 4 hide in shadows 7 detect ill 12 set traps 30 - I put 1 point in each and the leftover 3 in 'pick pockets' - After that, the character sheet says I have pick pockets 4 open locks 1 find traps 2 move silently 5 hide in shadows 8 detect ill 13 set traps 31 ## Level-up to 5 (10000) - Level-up interface tells me I have 10 points to distribute and that I start with pick pockets 0 open locks 0 find traps 1 move silently 5 hide in shadows 10 detect ill 19 set traps 62 Edited July 11 by mickabouille Quote Link to comment
jmerry Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 The intermediate values are actually used, for the blade and skald. And ... what the? I just tested it, and saw something very weird happen. Create a party of a bard, a blade, and a skald in BG2EE, all human with 18 DEX (+25 to skill). Initially level 8. Autosave has them all at level 8, with 60 skill points invested in the CRE files. In-game character screen immediately after character creation shows PP values of 85, 72, and 66. Then I give them 1.5 million XP and level to character level 16, where the bard skill table maxes out at 100. In-game character screen shows PP values of 125, 62, and 31. The blade and skald got much worse by leveling up. Save, and the CRE files are now at 100, 50, and 25. So, the engine-applied race and DEX bonuses get the multiplier. The values in the CRE file have that multiplier applied at every in-game level-up, but not at character creation. And temporary bonuses from stuff like equipped items or potions are always 1x. Values of other than 0 or 100 are viable for classes with fixed skill progressions (bard, ranger, shaman), but not anything that actually invests skill points. Except that the first level after character creation is a loophole during which that multiplier isn't applied to the base skill value. Quote Link to comment
mickabouille Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 (edited) Yeah I forgot, I was focused on thieves, those without a fixed progression. Edited July 11 by mickabouille Quote Link to comment
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