Any way to play fighter --> into sorcerer dual class?

[Morgoth]

Just asking.

[subtledoctor]

You would have to make a single-class sorcerer kit in the mage class. Doable, but has not been done.

[Jarno Mikkola]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

. Doable, but has not been done.

Or could it be that it's not ? As it's extreamly hard to actually make a Mage kit that can do the same things as a Sorcerer.
It's easy to make a Sorcerer kit that does all the fighter bullshit, but that's overpowered ... as we already know.

Also, let me remind that the spell selection and the all the other bullshit needs to be not just similar, but exact SAME, and the kits name needs to be Sorcerer too, etc.

Erhm, this:

Quote

play fighter --> into sorcerer dual class

Doesn't actually mean a darn thing. As you are either a Fighter... or a Sorcerer, or a fighter/mage, but there's nothing in the middle.

Edited August 30 by Jarno Mikkola

[rigidjelly]

1 Play as a fighter till desired level.

2 Save edit to sorcerer. Remove all fighter stuff.

3 Play as a sorcerer till you theoretically would get fighter stuff back.

4 Save edit fighter stuff.

For a base fighter this is trivially easy. Kits will need more work.

[Jarno Mikkola]

5 minutes ago, rigidjelly said:

2 Save edit to sorcerer. Remove all fighter stuff.

I would like to see you try to dis . As you'll find out, making a fighter into a sorcerer is not as easy as switching their class... why, it's for you to find out.

[rigidjelly]

Did you quote the wrong point?

It's point 4 that is the wonky bit as the game isnt set up for fighter->sorc so you need a mod for weapon spec apr,, you need mod for con/hp table,, you need to manually remove full hit dice gained from sorc levels because the game knows you are actually a pure sorc, you can't actually use helmets and fighter restricted weapons and probably a couple of other things that dont immediately spring to mind.

[DiesIrae]

Have you looked at the talents of faerun mod
 

New Sorcerer Kit: Bloodrager

Bloodragers are sorcerers whose innate magical power is tied to a deep reservoir of buried rage. While most spellcasters require some level of calm and discipline to use their magic to best effect, bloodragers can enter a state of savage fury while still drawing on their powerful magic abilities.

Bloodragers receive the berserker's rage ability, and are somewhat better trained in weapons and armor than normal sorcerers (they can use any melee weapon; they can become specialized in any weapon; they can use light armor; they receive +1 to hit per 3 levels, partly compensating for sorcerers' poor attack rolls; they have 1d6 hit points per level). However, they are sharply restricted in their choice of spells: they can only learn spells from the schools of abjuration, alteration, invocation, and necromancy.

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

56 minutes ago, rigidjelly said:

Did you quote the wrong point?

It's point 4 that is the wonky bit as the game isnt set up for fighter->sorc so you need a mod for weapon spec apr,, you need mod for con/hp table,, you need to manually remove full hit dice gained from sorc levels because the game knows you are actually a pure sorc, you can't actually use helmets and fighter restricted weapons and probably a couple of other things that dont immediately spring to mind.

No. See the fact is that in point 2; you need to recreate the character creation from a level x fighter to a level 1 sorcerer. Which also, includes the level 1 sorcerer spell picks, the proficiency picks. And other things. Ouh, and your chearacter needs to look like a non fighter. Likely best would be the fighter mage, but who's to tell. As a single class sorcerer.

The point 4's hit points, thac0 & the item restrictions and all other is easy, you just apply few bonuses to thac0, and hit point, and a UAI effect to the character and he will be using items a fighter-mage can use, cause those are likely his things. -well, that's the point of the thing, you need to create this to test the thesis, as I am only intrested in theorizing, not the actually playing it. Ouh, and you are telling that this is the best thing you can tell OTHER people to do.

52 minutes ago, DiesIrae said:

Have you looked at the talents of faerun mod
...
and are somewhat better trained in weapons and armor than normal sorcerers (they can use any melee weapon; they can become specialized in any weapon; they can use light armor; they receive +1 to hit per 3 levels, partly compensating for sorcerers' poor attack rolls; they have 1d6 hit points per level). However, they are sharply restricted in their choice of spells: they can only learn spells from the schools of abjuration, alteration, invocation, and necromancy.

No. So how does the ToF handle other custom kits besides it's own ? Say does it support a non-modified Sorcerers still besides it's own Sorcerer kits ? Say you want to play a modded NP(C) character that's has the vanilla Sorcerer kit. Can they all of a sudden just pick a longsword and use it without proficiency cause they just feel like it and other new kit vs. class bullshit things that the original restrictions were blindly balanced around.

Edited August 31 by Jarno Mikkola

[DiesIrae]

That is a separate kit as one of the options. Doesn't touch the base sorcerer or at least shouldn't. Other sorcerer kits do exist in the model separately but I have no idea how other sorcerer kits would be affected 

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

1 hour ago, DiesIrae said:

That is a separate kit as one of the options. Doesn't touch the base sorcerer or at least shouldn't. Other sorcerer kits do exist in the model separately but I have no idea how other sorcerer kits would be affected

Thing is, the item usage. As in this game, the kits add in not-usable flags to the base class items, which need the be enabled for the base class to grant usage of the kits, while it's impossible the other way around. This can be went around with a clever usage of the kit flags, but it's very frail approach in most cases.
The point being that the base class shoudn't gain the ability to use long swords (or usage of light armor) just because a kit is able to do it... in the context of the compatibility.

Edited August 31 by Jarno Mikkola

[subtledoctor]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:35 PM, Jarno Mikkola said:

As it's extreamly hard to actually make a Mage kit that can do the same things as a Sorcerer

I have such a kit in my game right now. The only thing that is noticeably different is spell learning - it uses Kjeron’s “spell-learning UI” function rather than doing a more advanced UI hack in the level-up screen. 

That said, once you get used to the different method of learning spells, it functions exactly like a sorcerer - a limit to known spells, which can be cast interchangeably a certain number of times. The known-spell slots and cast-spell slots are exactly identical to vanilla sorcerers. It plays exactly like a sorcerer, except it is available for multiclass or dualclass. 

Thing is, I designed it for multiclass applications, not dual-class applications, so I did not make a pure single-class version of it. 

(But the functions I used to make the multiclass versions ate freely available, if anyone wants to use them for a single-class version, there is nothing stopping them.)

(I did make a single-class version once… but it used a point-based system instead of spellcasting slots. And I probably disabled dual-classing for it, since I don’t like making munchkin shit. But, that last issue can be remedied by tweaking a simple .2da file, so it’s not far from being available to someone willing to put some effort into it…)

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yes, you made a Mage kit that has sorcerer like spell lerning and casting... but it's a mage kit, not a pure Sorcerer. I also made a specialist mage kit once... so what ? To a mod the several players have played and it likely got a complete remake ... after the EE, so this isn't much special.

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

 And I probably disabled dual-classing for it, since I don’t like making munchkin shit. But, that last issue can be remedied by tweaking a simple .2da file, so it’s not far from being available to someone willing to put some effort into it…)

And then there's the fact that you need to dual class into it, which you cannot dual normally to a kit either... so, here we stand, in a pile of bull%/&(.
I am sure one could make use of these ... but I am not willing to put my efforts to it. So sure, come back after you - have.

Edited September 4 by Jarno Mikkola

[subtledoctor]

On 8/30/2024 at 1:35 PM, Jarno Mikkola said:

could it be that it's not [doable]? As it's extreamly hard to actually make a Mage kit that can do the same things as a Sorcerer.

 

22 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I have such a kit in my game

 

20 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

you made a Mage kit that has sorcerer like spell lerning and casting... but it's a mage kit, not a pure Sorcerer… so what ?

So, you said it’s not doable, and I corrected you by pointing out that it has already been done. That’s all. 

[Jarno Mikkola]

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

So, you said it’s not doable, and I corrected you by pointing out that it has already been done. That’s all. 

So, show me the solution you have for the different spell casting timers, the selection of spells which I trust you made to use a GUI, and not a dialog, and remember that it also has takebacks, like the normal sorcerer, and let's just suppose your kit also intergrates itself perfectly into the Talents of the Swordcoast. But didn't you say you didn't make it a single class that could-be dual-to ? As that was the request.

[rigidjelly]

2 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

different spell casting timers

takebacks

What