EET Large (but Not Too Large) Mega Mod Install

[Thom Merrilin]

I recently completed my latest EET mod install and wanted to share my WEIDU log and experiences for anyone that was going through a similar exercise.  I want to thank 4udrn for his ongoing work on maintaining the EET install order master spreadsheet, as well as subtledoctor for continuing to share his WEIDU mega mod logs- both were invaluable in assembling my own mod install order list.  Any gamer looking to create their own EET custom install list should start there.

The challenge is not only assembling a mod install order, but more specifically, a component install order.  Going directly to the readme is a good starting point, but the reality is that mods are constantly being updated, and readmes run the gamut from comprehensive and very helpful to abbreviated, outdated or non-existent.  In preparing for this install, I also reviewed all of the forum posts here and on Beamdog for mod discussion on bugs, installation order, and compatibility discussions for almost every mod on the install list.  At times, this is exhausting- Item Revisions Revised, for example, has an 111 page forum discussion, and I'm still not 100% clear on whether that mod is exactly what I needed for my project (in the end, I skipped that mod entirely and instead used the current beta update of the original Demivrgs Item Revisions mod).

Getting the component order correct also meant cataloging and identifying overlapping tweaks and revisions covered by multiple mods- there are many competing options for the importing of IDW spells, HLA modifications, revisions of spell and THACO tables, sphere systems, item usability, caster levels, weapon styles, progression tables, etc., and I don't know of any way to completely avoid incompatibilities other than pre-planning on which mods to use for which components prior to installation by cataloging all of the options from the readmes and forum posts.

None of this a complaint directed toward modders- for a 25+ year plus old game, the recent content and tweak mods are outstanding and for a repeat player, essential to the playability and enjoyment of the game.  The challenge is that it has never been more difficult to try and install these mods, especially for an extensive EET run.

I have found Project Infinity difficult and time consuming to use, and prefer manual mod installation to reduce issues and get clean installs.  The WEIDU log attached was a clean install without errors, although it comes with a caveat that it includes several new mods where issues may not be visible until deep into the game.  The character creation and start of the game worked without issues, and I have now started Chapter 2 with only a couple of minor issues.  Since a lot of the discussion around mod install order does not also include follow-up of a full run-through of the game, I will try to keep this post updated for any observations as I go through the entire trilogy.

Random thoughts from my install decisions:

• I prioritize story and content in mod decisions.  Because EET installations are far more complicated than just modding one game, for me the rationale on using EET is to play one massive, continuous saga, where character and NPC decisions made in Nashkel can have impact way down the road in Suldanessellar.  For this reason, I do not generally use new NPC mods.  There are 40 or so existing NPCs already, and I feel it is already difficult to fully realize their stories without adding even more characters, especially on a EET run
• This is my first attempt at a "7th party member" with moving Grey the Dog in and out of the party- so far, this is working perfectly
• I stick to the LeFreut enhanced UI and bypass most other UI modifications, including the EEX and IDW additions, because I think adding more UI modifications is one of easiest ways to create install issues.  Other than LeFreut, I highly recommend BG Graphics Overhaul and the Lighting Pack- the game looks terrific
• Item and Spell tweaks are another area where I have had past installs go awry-  for this install I stuck to Item Revisions but broke up the install into three different areas of the install order.  For spell tweaks, I stuck to SCS and subtledoctor's SpellTweaks and did not install Spell Revisions, and for the first time I installed the spell component of SCS as a separate component earlier in the install.  I looked at the newer DavidW Talents of Faerun, but felt there was way too much overlap with other mods and skipped for this install
• Partially for game balance and to slow level progression, and partially to test its viability, I used the elements of Tweak Anthology, NPC EE and the kit mods to remove all dual NPC flags with the intention of changing all NPC kits to multikits as they are added individually to the party.  So far this has worked as advertised- Imoen is now an Arcane Trickster, Montaron a Thug, Khalid an Arcane Archer, Jaheira a Duskblade/Druid, etc. 
• To pull the multiclass kit off for all classes, requires using mods Like Monastic Orders to allow for monk multiclass, Might and Guile to allow for bard multiclass, etc.  This works fine, but results in monks and bards appearing in their own class as normal, while simultaneously revised monk and bard kits and multiclass appear under the Thief class to get around the hardcoded limitations- confusing to have two distinct monk or blades, but workable
• There is no consensus on whether to run EET-end before or after SCS and the various tweak packages are installed- there are conflicting directions in the readmes and in the forums.  I ran EET last out of habit and after all of the tweaks were installed, and so far, no problems.
• I only use mods that are still being updated or have been updated in the last couple of a years, with only a few exceptions.  I did push the envelope on new mods that I wanted to try- Framed, Reflections of Destiny, Black Pits in BG1, and a lot of the new Lava and Acifer work.  I also will be interested to see how/if Reflections, Endless BG1, Imoen4Ever, Another Fine Hell all work together in the BG1 to SOD and SOD to SOA transitions.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by Thom Merrilin
updated WeiDu log

[Holden]

I just came off a large EET install myself.  Took me roughly 10 tries to get a working copy that I'm satisfied with...so far.  

The only glitch that I couldn't figure out was with SCS' "Improved NPC Customization."  Apparently, it will only work properly if the component is installed after EET_End, while the rest of the SCS components are installed beforehand.  Apparently, there was a conflict with "TOB Style NPCs" in CDTweaks, but even after I removed that component, I couldn't get the SCS component to install properly.  The installation would always hang at a certain point.  It was supremely frustrating, as there are so many tweak components in play that going back and uninstalling through the mod order to adjust things always ends up making the situation worse.  

Actually, there was one time where I managed to get the component to install properly, but then I realized I'd forgotten to include some critical mods early in the install order.  It's amazing how easy it is to miss something when you're installing literally hundreds of mods, no matter how organized you are.  It's also amazing how you can do everything the same, and still produce different results.  I did several further installs in what I thought was the exact same way, but Improved NPC Customization never installed properly again.  Go figure.

Another problem lay with the Artisan Kitpack.  While the mod installed properly, the descriptions of the kits in character creation only show up properly in BG2.  This threw me off so many times, where I thought the component didn't install properly and I'd start over.  There are many other issues I ran into that I can't even recall them all at this point.

I don't use a mod manager, and re-installing everything can take up the better part of the day.  I wish there was a way I could "backup" my installation partway through so I wouldn't have to start from scratch every time, but I don't think it's possible given the way EET works.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your experience here.  Modding the game has become a game in itself at this point.  Literally took weeks to research everything and finally produce a mod order that works.  It was worth it, though.

[Thom Merrilin]

This is the challenge for even experienced mod installers- it becomes almost impossible to track all elements that could conflict, especially as new mods are being added or older mods updated on a continual basis.  Here is a list of potential conflict areas that I use to prepare for an install, recognizing that some of these are likely very obvious to long-term players:

• tweaks, stat changes and kit changes for existing NPCs: Tweaks, SCS, NPC EE, NPC Kitpack, Convenient EE NPC, Artisan Kitpacks, Refinements, Divine Remix, Deities of Faerun, as well as smaller mods like Totemic Cernd and Viconia Revamped.  Some of these conflict, some don't, but it is helpful pre-install to map out what changes if any are desired for each individual NPC
• class and multiclass changes to racial, weapon, armor, helmet restrictions, as well as complete overhaul of dual-class and multi-class kits and restrictions: Item revisions, Tweak Anthology, Talents of Faerun, NPC EE, SCS, Artisan Kitpack, as well as a whole host of class mods- Faith and Powers, Monastic Orders, Might and Guile, Tome and Blood, Deities of Faerun, Bardic Wonders.  I love the flexibility to alter PC and NPC classes, but this is definitely a group of mods that may not play well together and where pre-selection is key
• spell tweaks, caster levels, spell progression tables, opposition schools, magic resistance, contingency, familiars, IDW spells, etc.- again, I try to carefully review the components of all of these mods to avoid conflicts and problems and make sure the install choices do what is intended.  Tweaks Anthology, EETweaks, SD Stats Overhaul, Talents of Faerun, SCS, SD Spell Tweaks, Tome and Blood, Spell revisions, SOD2BG2, Rogue Rebalancing.  In addition, the various clerical sphere mods also completely overhaul divine spells, so there may be overlap with the previous list as well- Faiths and Powers, Divine Remix, Deities of Faerun and Talents of Faerun, all of which have divine spell sphere systems incompatible with each other
• many mods offer complete overhaul of specific classes, I generally choose only one in each category or at least am careful about mix and matching components- Thief and Bard (Song and Silence, Bardic Wonders, Rogue Rebalancing, Might and Guile,  Artisan Kitpack, Talents of Faerun), Archer (Improved Archer Kit, Might and  Guile), Ranger (Artisan Kitpack, Might and Guile, Divine Remix), Fighter (Sword and Fist, Artisan Kitpack, Might and Guile), Monk (Monastic Orders, Artisan Kitpack, Sword and Fist), and the clerical mods that alter some or all of paladin/cleric/druid- (Talents of Faerun, Artisan Kitpack, Might and Guile, Faith and Powers, Divine Remix)  
• Item and weapons revisions, rebalancing and proficiencies, grand mastery- Item Revisions, Refinements, Talents of Faerun, SCS, SD Combat Skills
• THACO, HP, HLA and stats adjustments and progression changes- Tweaks Anthology, SD Stat Overhaul, Refinements, SD Combat Skills, Talents of Faerun, NPC EE (allows for stat adjustments on the fly), as well as class mods like Might and Guile, Tome and Blood, Rogue Rebalancing that make changes at the class level that could conflict with the game-wide changes made by the other mods
• Tweaks to shapeshifting- Tweaks Anthology, SCS, Faith and Powers, Refinements, Talents of Faerun
• Experience caps and xp tweaks- Tweaks Anthology, EETTweaks, SD Stat Overhaul
• Random item and scroll drops- SCS, Tweaks Anthology, SOD2BG2

There are very few quest or NPC mods that could screw up an install, and most incompatibilities or install dependencies in those categories are fairly well known and identified.  It is the item, spell, class and tweak categories above that cause me stress and doubt every time I plan out a new install of EET.

[Holden]

You're very correct about that.  Unfortunately, the quest and NPC mods are often the most time consuming to install due to sheer number.  I usually replace the portraits in the NPC packs before I install them, which makes it even more so.

In my current install, I simplified things a lot by picking only one item/spell revision mod.  For kits, I only stuck with Artisan's Kitpack.  I installed just about every Tweak pack I could find, however, since there is at least one or two essential tweaks in every pack out there, at least for me.  The problem is that so many tweak packs contain similar components, so you really do have to map things out and be disciplined with the install.  I can only imagine the madness that would ensue when you try to get massive kit packs to play nicely with each other.  For now, Artisan's pretty much addressed everything I needed (monk/ranger overhaul and various other interesting new kits).

For my next install, I'm going to use your Weidu log as a reference to save myself the headache.  Thanks for uploading it.

EDIT:  I noticed you installed Almateria's Restoration Project.  Any concern with conflicts with SCS' improved locations?  I am worried that I will experience bugs later in the game when two mods are acting on the same area.

Edited September 10 by Holden

[subtledoctor]

Actually I find most kit mods interact pretty well, as most kit abilities and characteristics are fairly self-contained.

Dunno if it helps but there are some  rules that I apply:

- Fighters: I’m not sure if there are any issues? I don’t recall offhand whether Artisan KitPack makes broad changes to the base class… if so it might be incompatible with most other mods. (Biggest thing to pay attention to here: all multiclass kits get the effects of trueclass non-kits, so mods that affect trueclasses may mess with multiclasses unless they are careful.)

- Rangers: choose AKP or MnG+DR. (A few MnG ranger kits will probably coexist with AKP but the broad MnG ‘Improved Rangers’ may not be compatible… and see above about mods modifying the base class.)

- Paladins: choose AKP, or FnP, or Skills & Abilities.

- Monks: choose AKP or Monastic Orders.

- Thieves: choose AKP or RR+MnG. 

- Bards: I don’t think anything is actually incompatible? Maybe Bardic Wonders vs. SnS base-class changes? But the items and kits from BW, SnS, and MnG should all coexist okay. 

- Sorcerer kits: choose ToF or TnB.

- Innate metamagic: choose SCS/ToF, or TnB.

- Familiars: choose More Style for Mages, or WTP Familiars, or SD Spell Tweaks, or EE Improved Familiars. 

- Bonus spell slots: choose ToF, or House Rules, or SD Stat Overhauls.

- Druid kits: choose ToF, or AKP, or FnP.

- Druid shapechanging: choose SCS/ToF, or CDTweaks, or House Rules, or FnP. (If speaking of HLAs, substitute Refinements for FnP; FnP uses Refinements HLAs generally so they are equivalent in this category)

- Multiclass druids: choose ToF, or FnP, or that one from the Beamdog forums.

- Cleric kits/spheres: choose ToF, or DoF, or FnP+DR. 

- Changing NPCs: choose SCS/ToF NPC Customization, or NPC_EE, or Level1NPCs. 

- Weapon proficiencies: choose ToF, or CDTweaks, or House Rules, or Combat Skills & Proficiencies, or S&A.

- Feats: choose ToF, or CSP, or S&A.

- Items: choose Item Revisions or Forgotten Armanent.

- Armor & spellcasting: choose Item Revisions, or ToF (I think?), or CDTweaks, or SD Item Tweaks. 

Most of those can probably be mixed & matched. Not sure about ToF though, it is too new and I don’t have much experience/knowledge of it. 

[southfla79]

Wheel of Time!

[Thom Merrilin]

Subtledoctor- thanks for the response.  This is my first install with your Stats Overhaul mod- the integration in the character creation was seamless and I really like the extra strategy considerations that go into the abilities selection and rolls (and reroll and reroll...). 

 

4 hours ago, Holden said:

EDIT:  I noticed you installed Almateria's Restoration Project.  Any concern with conflicts with SCS' improved locations?  I am worried that I will experience bugs later in the game when two mods are acting on the same area.

I haven't found any posted incompatibilities between Almateria's Restoration and SCS.  AR asks to be installed before Quest Pack, and SCS after Quest Pack, and that's all the documentation I can find.  Unfortunately with large EET installs, if there are conflicts in SoA you won't find out until it is too late, but I'll report anything I find.  I will say that the discussion about potential mod conflicts is more extensive in the SCS Readme than almost any other mod I can think of, and David W does not mention Almateria.

 

2 hours ago, southfla79 said:

Wheel of Time!

Rand al'Thor says hello! 

 

[Holden]

7 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

- Changing NPCs: choose SCS/ToF NPC Customization, or NPC_EE, or Level1NPCs. 

I wasn't able to install the SCS component, and wasn't aware of the substitutes, so I stuck with TOB Style NPCs in CDTweaks.  Would that be sufficient in your opinion?

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, Holden said:

I wasn't able to install the SCS component, and wasn't aware of the substitutes, so I stuck with TOB Style NPCs in CDTweaks.  Would that be sufficient in your opinion?

TOB-style NPCs just affects their starting stats, it doesn’t let you customize them more than that. You can install NPC_EE after everything else. It puts a customization book in NPCs’ inventory, so if you don’t like the mod you can just throw the books away.

[Thom Merrilin]

Quick review of minor bugs or other observations so far playing through the install.  I'm still in Chapter 2 and have not yet proceeded to the Nashkel mines- as anticipated and intended, changing the entire party to multiclass means running through early stages with mostly a level 1 party, especially with Stats Overhaul slower, standardized XP tables component.

• Using NPC EE has worked seamlessly in altering NPC stats, kits, and classes.  There is a delay that occurs when changing Rasaad to a multi Sun Soul Monk/fighter and I was concerned it could result in a CTD, but the mod handled the class change successfully.  I've tested this twice in two different games and the delay, followed by a successful conversion, happened both times
• The slow-down reputation component in SCS is not working as designed- I have it set at 1/3 the normal growth rate in reputation points and the WeidDU shows it installed successfully.  I have never had an issue with this component before, and AFAIK, no other mod touches this component, so not sure why it is occurring in this install.  In two separate game tests, when I returned the ring to Joia in the Friendly Arm Inn, I received an incremental improved reputation point twice in the same encounter.  I can offset this in-game with the bard reputation component to decrease reputation (and accepting the Gorgon's Eye quest gave me a -2 reputation automatically), but it is odd that it is occurring
• There have been a couple of enemy encounters where the scroll drop was 3 of the same level 1 spell (magic missile, shield).  I have not seen this before on previous installs- I think the only random drop component I selected was from SCS, and I specifically did not install random drop components from SOD2BG2 or TweaksA to avoid any conflicts.  Not a big issue in game play, but a new effect?
• This is the first time I am using the enhanced resting component of SCS, and it may be working as intended, but is the price for the most expensive rooms really supposed to be $2000-$3000 per night?  The SCS readme doesn't give any additional information, but I am wondering if there are other factors that impact price- charisma, reputation, etc.?
• When I used NPC EE to change Eldoth's kit to Charlatan (1st time using the Vanishing of Skie Silvershield mod), a spellbook appeared in his inventory after NPC EE completed the change.  No other clerical or mage NPC received this spellbook during kit/class change, so I am guessing this is from the kit mod and not NPC EE.  In the spellbook, there was dialogue text from SOA in one of the spell name and description fields- I didn't recognize the symbol, but it looked something like the glyph of warding spell.  This is a one-off kit from Raduziel from 2019, and there is no readme to determine if anything should be changed on install order, or any incompatibilities with other mods that alter the Bard class.  Since otherwise the kit appears to be working fine, I'll continue the run with Eldoth as a Charlatan for now

Other than that, smooth sailing so far- early game BG1 mod content from Grey the Dog, The Gorgon's Eye, Vanishing of Skie Silvershield, Black Hearts, Shades of Sword Coast, Extra Expanded Encounters and BG1 NPC project all working with no issues.

[Holden]

5 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

TOB-style NPCs just affects their starting stats, it doesn’t let you customize them more than that. You can install NPC_EE after everything else. It puts a customization book in NPCs’ inventory, so if you don’t like the mod you can just throw the books away.

Sorry, at the risk of sounding idiotic, I don't really understand what you mean by "just affects their starting stats."  I am looking for something that allows NPCs to join with a similar experience score but a enough low level that, when they join my party, I can "level them up" manually and adjust their proficiencies while doing so.  That way, I can comfortably change party members without some of them becoming horribly underleveled.  I don't really care about changing their classes or anything like that.

Also, if I install NPC EE, can I be assured there is no conflict with TOB-style NPCs?

[subtledoctor]

38 minutes ago, Holden said:

looking for something that allows NPCs to join with a similar experience score but a enough low level that, when they join my party, I can "level them up" manually and adjust their proficiencies while doing so

TOB-style NPCs, IIRC (and someone correct me if I am wrong, I haven’t looked at the code in a long time) just sets each NPC to the lowest-level version of their creature file. But for many, that lowest level is still quite high. Many characteristics (class, kit, stats, initial proficiencies) are set in stone.

40 minutes ago, Holden said:

if I install NPC EE, can I be assured there is no conflict with TOB-style NPCs?

100%. They do different things and do not interfere with each other. I always install both, myself. 

- You recruit someone; if you like them as they are simply throw away the NPC_EE tome from their inventory.

- If you want to play around, quicksave and use the NPC_EE tome. It lets you change their class, kit, stats, and/or proficiencies. For class changes it drops them to level 0 and you build up the character from scratch; for kit or stat or proficiency changes it can make the changes without changing their level.

- If you don’t like the result you can load the quicksave and 1) try again, or 2) go back to how they were originally and throw away the tome.

Nothing is changed in any creature file unless you decide to go out of your way to make changes. It’s kind of like using EEKeeper, except you can do it right inside the game.

[Holden]

That's exactly what I was thinking:  Why can't you just EEKeeper those details?  Thanks for the explanation--might install in my run after all.  I'm generally loathe to adjust my mod order at this point because it tends to screw up my save games.  Last time I tweaked a few things, my save got the dreaded "dialog where spell names should be" glitch, and I had to start over.  

[subtledoctor]

24 minutes ago, Holden said:

Last time I tweaked a few things, my save got the dreaded "dialog where spell names should be" glitch, and I had to start over

You can install it at the end, leave it installed but never use it, and uninstall it at your whim. This is one of the safest mods in this respect. 

[Holden]

Much appreciated for the tip.  I will give it a shot.