Some thoughts and "bugs" on a new playthrough with SCS 35.20 and ToF beta14

[Palanthis]

Hey there ! To begin with, i just want to say the SCS mod is still fantastic, like always, and even better with its new options now. The ToF is also very good in my opinion. I especially like the fact that you can now, with ToF and the "improved NPC customization and management" component, give some flavor to most of the companions, besides your main character, with dual-classing for example. I use the ToF Custom option of the "Adjust Opposition Schools for Speciality Mages" component and feel that specialist mages are now very thematic, and overall very balanced.

Here are some "bugs" or strange things i noted, especially with the news spells :
- the AC bonus of Stonefist is not applied on the inventory screen nor the character's sheet. Maybe it's working, but we can't know for sure because the AC doesn't seem to change. The damage and stun part of the spell is working fine, though.
- Color Spray : the description in the readme is "The spell now affects any creature of the caster's level or below" and it seems that the spell is working like that ingame. But the spell's description ingame is really different. It says that the spell works on higher level enemies and that the effect and duration of the spell depends on the level of the enemies. I think it's the text of "Spells revision" (a mod i don't use at the moment) and curiously, the spell description seems to be the one of this mod, not the one that should apply from SCS.
- Larloch's Minor Drain : the upgraded damage of SCS seems to work fine most of the time, but i noticed two bugs. First, the innate ability you can get with an evil character is still the old version of the spell (it always does 4 damage, your main character's level doesn't change anything) even though the ability's description is the new one. Also, for some reason i don't understand, when i used the spell on a level 2 Xzar, he was hitting with 7 damage, which shouldn't be possible at level 2. I guess this had to be related to his necromancer class, but i don't see how, since specialists are not supposed to get a higher spellcasting level with the spells of their specialty, to my knowledge. I may be wrong here.

I'm still early in BGEE (just achieved 40k XP / level 6) but will update this thread with other bugs if see new ones.

Edited November 12 by Palanthis

[Guest Gwinn]

The bug with Larloch's Minor Drain is also reported in this thread: https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/37885-larlochs-minor-drain-deals-4-more-damage-than-documented/

[Palanthis]

Some more thing i noticed that don't seem right :

- the "Hill Giant Barbarian" form from the new Polymorph spell doesn't seem to be able to move. I was trying it on plain ground outdoors, and had plenty of space to move, so i don't see what could cause this except a real bug. My barbarian form was just stuttering in his spot without moving each time i ordered a move. All other forms from the spell could move all right.
- when i recruited Quayle and leveled him up with "improved NPC customization and management", something was wrong with his proficiencies. He could only choose from the 4 proficiencies of mage class, including the dagger, which he shouldn't be able to use as a cleric. This was for the first level, and also the following levels-up. I didn't have any problems like that with all other NPC from BG1.
- suggestion / thought : it really seems that Quayle should be an "illusionist of Baervan" multiclass with ToF installed, but he isn't in my game, and the readme doesn't mention it either. Note sure why, since he seems to already have cleric' spells from Baervan domains, and he is an illusionist. He doesn't have the bonus abilities from this kit, and his class description is just "cleric/mage" for now.

 

[Isewein]

His dialogue mentions he follows Baravar, not Baervan, iirc.

[jmerry]

1 hour ago, Palanthis said:

- the "Hill Giant Barbarian" form from the new Polymorph spell doesn't seem to be able to move. I was trying it on plain ground outdoors, and had plenty of space to move, so i don't see what could cause this except a real bug. My barbarian form was just stuttering in his spot without moving each time i ordered a move. All other forms from the spell could move all right.

Forms that increase the size of the selection circle often have trouble pathing. The particular behavior you saw ... maybe you expanded into overlapping with some other creature's personal space? Maybe one of the other party members, maybe just a neutral squirrel or something. When two creatures occupy the same space and both try to move at the same time, both fail.

[Palanthis]

45 minutes ago, Isewein said:

His dialogue mentions he follows Baravar, not Baervan, iirc.

You're right ! Thanks.  I assumed he followed the same divinity as Aerie, since they are so close in BG2. Also, "Baervan" and "Baravar" are so close names !

20 minutes ago, jmerry said:

Forms that increase the size of the selection circle often have trouble pathing. The particular behavior you saw ... maybe you expanded into overlapping with some other creature's personal space? Maybe one of the other party members, maybe just a neutral squirrel or something. When two creatures occupy the same space and both try to move at the same time, both fail.

So your comment made me check again. I'm now positive that there is a bug, though it could be related to what you say.
The Barbarian form is working right and can move IF you just polymorph into it as soon as you cast the spell. BUT if you then transform into the spider, wolf (or any other form really), and later in the barbarian form, then it can't move.
it's a minor bug, because maybe you don't need to shift into barbarian after polymorphing to something else, but still.

Edited November 15 by Palanthis

[Palanthis]

Despite what the readme says, Ghost armor still gives AC2 (and not AC1). The duration has been extended though. And the spell's description ingame indicates AC2, so i'm not sure if the spell has been shifted back to AC2 since then, or if it's a "bug".
Imho, AC1 would be more balanced for this spell, because Spirit Armor still lasts longer and his bonus to spell saves is invaluable.
Also, from a balance perspective, i do feel that the new Icewind Dale spell "Emotion, Fear" at level 4 is completely useless. It's basically the same as Horror at level 2, but much worse: its duration is much shorter, and his Aoe Effect is smaller. Unless i'm missing something here, I'm not sure how it could compete with Horror, and think it should give a penalty to the save in order to be balanced. The removal of "Emotion, Courage" is far from enough to justify this spell at level 4.

Edited November 17 by Palanthis

[DavidW]

On 11/12/2024 at 10:41 AM, Palanthis said:

the AC bonus of Stonefist is not applied on the inventory screen nor the character's sheet. Maybe it's working, but we can't know for sure because the AC doesn't seem to change. The damage and stun part of the spell is working fine, though.

It wasn't being applied; fixed in 35.21.

On 11/12/2024 at 10:41 AM, Palanthis said:

Color Spray : the description in the readme is "The spell now affects any creature of the caster's level or below" and it seems that the spell is working like that ingame. But the spell's description ingame is really different. It says that the spell works on higher level enemies and that the effect and duration of the spell depends on the level of the enemies. I think it's the text of "Spells revision" (a mod i don't use at the moment) and curiously, the spell description seems to be the one of this mod, not the one that should apply from SCS.

The in-game description is what's intended to happen (the readme is a bit misleading) though actually it wasn't properly implemented. Fixed in 35.21.

On 11/12/2024 at 10:41 AM, Palanthis said:

Larloch's Minor Drain : the upgraded damage of SCS seems to work fine most of the time, but i noticed two bugs. First, the innate ability you can get with an evil character is still the old version of the spell (it always does 4 damage, your main character's level doesn't change anything) even though the ability's description is the new one. Also, for some reason i don't understand, when i used the spell on a level 2 Xzar, he was hitting with 7 damage, which shouldn't be possible at level 2. I guess this had to be related to his necromancer class, but i don't see how, since specialists are not supposed to get a higher spellcasting level with the spells of their specialty, to my knowledge. I may be wrong here.

I can reproduce the +4 damage; fixed in 35.21. I can't reproduce the failure to work on the innate ability; my version seems to work fine.

On 11/15/2024 at 11:57 AM, Palanthis said:

the "Hill Giant Barbarian" form from the new Polymorph spell doesn't seem to be able to move. I was trying it on plain ground outdoors, and had plenty of space to move, so i don't see what could cause this except a real bug. My barbarian form was just stuttering in his spot without moving each time i ordered a move. All other forms from the spell could move all right.

I've seen occasional issues like this myself; unfortunately I'm not clear how to fix it. I *think* it's rare enough that people can put up with it and use CTRL-J to fix it when it comes up, but I'd welcome people's thoughts.

 

On 11/15/2024 at 11:57 AM, Palanthis said:

when i recruited Quayle and leveled him up with "improved NPC customization and management", something was wrong with his proficiencies. He could only choose from the 4 proficiencies of mage class, including the dagger, which he shouldn't be able to use as a cleric. This was for the first level, and also the following levels-up. I didn't have any problems like that with all other NPC from BG1.

I'll need your WEIDU.log to debug that, since it may depend which proficiency components you are using.

On 11/15/2024 at 11:57 AM, Palanthis said:

suggestion / thought : it really seems that Quayle should be an "illusionist of Baervan" multiclass with ToF installed, but he isn't in my game, and the readme doesn't mention it either. Note sure why, since he seems to already have cleric' spells from Baervan domains, and he is an illusionist. He doesn't have the bonus abilities from this kit, and his class description is just "cleric/mage" for now.

I coded him that way originally, but people pointed out he really worships Baravar. I'll probably code up Baravar sometime (I originally wanted every core-game cleric's god to be included.)

On 11/17/2024 at 11:15 AM, Palanthis said:

Despite what the readme says, Ghost armor still gives AC2 (and not AC1). The duration has been extended though. And the spell's description ingame indicates AC2, so i'm not sure if the spell has been shifted back to AC2 since then, or if it's a "bug".
Imho, AC1 would be more balanced for this spell, because Spirit Armor still lasts longer and his bonus to spell saves is invaluable.

It's a writeup bug: it's supposed to be AC 2 (and in fact the tweak is IWDEE-only: the spell is unchanged in BGEE.) Yes, spirit armor is better, but it's supposed to be: it's higher level.

On 11/17/2024 at 11:15 AM, Palanthis said:

Also, from a balance perspective, i do feel that the new Icewind Dale spell "Emotion, Fear" at level 4 is completely useless. It's basically the same as Horror at level 2, but much worse: its duration is much shorter, and his Aoe Effect is smaller. Unless i'm missing something here, I'm not sure how it could compete with Horror, and think it should give a penalty to the save in order to be balanced. The removal of "Emotion, Courage" is far from enough to justify this spell at level 4.

I'm inclined to agree (though merely by being 4th level it goes through Minor Globe, which isn't nothing). Will consider for a tweak at some point.

[Palanthis]

 Thank you for these answers, and than you very much for all this amazing work. I've already said it, but i don't think we can thank you enough for such an amazing mod (which i feel is, just like a Youtuber describes it, the "best difficulty ever added to a game in the history of gaming" and as such, one of the mainly reasons i think so many players keep return playing this game ).

Larloch's Minor Drain :

8 hours ago, DavidW said:

 I can't reproduce the failure to work on the innate ability; my version seems to work fine.

This is strange, i'll test it again. As i said, the ability was working, but still the old way (always 1d4+1 no matter which was the level of the main character).

Polymorph spell : have you seen my last comment ? The bug only seems to happen when you change into Barbarian form another of the polymorphed forms (for example, from the Ooze or wolf form to barbarian). Not sure if it can help, but i wanted to be sure you saw my last test with this spell.

About Quayle and his proficiencies :

8 hours ago, DavidW said:

 

I'll need your WEIDU.log to debug that, since it may depend which proficiency components you are using.

 

I already changed my installation since then, but it's the same log i posted in another thread : this one.

WeiDU.log

[jmerry]

On 11/21/2024 at 6:08 AM, Palanthis said:

As i said, the ability was working, but still the old way (always 1d4+1 no matter which was the level of the main character).

Original LMD is a fixed four points. This looks like the new formula, but locked at level 1. Maybe the innate version somehow got tagged as an arcane or divine spell and is using the wrong caster level? This change might have happened silently due to some other mod, then SCS changed the formula and suddenly it mattered. (SCS doesn't even look at the "what kind of spell" field when editing the various versions of LMD.)