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Integration into ScummVm project?


Guest timofonic

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Guest timofonic

Hello,

 

I was trying to find technical information about the BioWare Infinity engine for learning (I'm not programmer, I'm trying to learn C) and happily I found this, very nice!

 

What about joining this project into the big ScummVM? And then using the very good API stuff of it, not need to worry to low level stuff in the future, a lot more bugtesting... Could be very nice: a very god safe boat and probably will attract more developers! :)

 

www.scummvm.org

 

Other projects was been added into ScummVM, actually seems more the father project for engines, I dream having most opensource adventure engines into ScummVM :D

 

 

Best regards,

timofonic

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Guest avenger_work

I know scummvm a little, and there are the following problems (decreasing significance)

 

1. ScummVM is for point and click adventure and not rpg , there are no spell effects, combat, and a lot of other stuff that exists in an rpg.

 

 

2. The 'low level' stuff is already done. Also most of this code consists of handling original IE engine structures, which needs to be implemented at least once :)

 

 

3. The ScummVM authors won't work on any new projects unless they get ALL non-scumm specific source code. Since this code has not been released yet, the only hope would be that BioWare releases it :D

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There is only one thing that i couldn't implement now (at least not efficiently): the wallgroups. I don't know how is it implemented in scummvm, do they have separate objects for walls, trees, etc. or just selected polygons in a bitmap (as in the infinity engine). If there is an existing implementation of the latter, i would be glad to take it :D

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could you not have a word with Atari/BioWare and see how they can help you? i mean, even if they don't release the code (which is unlikely to happen, let's face it) they could help you out somehow, maybe employees or ex-employees would also lend a hand if they heard about this. i say this because they've always been very generous to the modding community in the past..

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could you not have a word with Atari/BioWare and see how they can help you? i mean, even if they don't release the code (which is unlikely to happen, let's face it) they could help you out somehow, maybe employees or ex-employees would also lend a hand if they heard about this. i say this because they've always been very generous to the modding community in the past..

Though one should bear in mind (I for one hope it to be unlikely) that they might hear "abandon the project or we'll sue you". :p

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could you not have a word with Atari/BioWare and see how they can help you? i mean, even if they don't release the code (which is unlikely to happen, let's face it)

 

Atari isn't at all involved with the Infinity Engine.

 

And no, I have actually discussed this question with Bioware's licensing director and they have no plans to release the Infinity Engine code in any form, not even for free or educational use. Not that I blame them, since it would take a lot of work just to extract the non-Bioware properties from the code (of which there are many.)

 

they could help you out somehow, maybe employees or ex-employees would also lend a hand if they heard about this. i say this because they've always been very generous to the modding community in the past..

 

Actually, Bioware's employees have been pretty hands-off as far as modding goes post-Ascension (which is to say, over the past four years, when 99% of the actual modding has taken place.)

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could you not have a word with Atari/BioWare and see how they can help you? i mean, even if they don't release the code (which is unlikely to happen, let's face it) they could help you out somehow, maybe employees or ex-employees would also lend a hand if they heard about this. i say this because they've always been very generous to the modding community in the past..

Though one should bear in mind (I for one hope it to be unlikely) that they might hear "abandon the project or we'll sue you". :p

Bioware is aware of GemRB, at least, i wrote a mail to David Gaider, which he replied :)

They don't care at all, either pro or contra about it.

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Gaider doesn't make the legal decisions, though. Although if anybody's going to care, it's more likely to be Hasbro over the ruleset.

Good thing is that we move everything out to easily readable/modifiable 2da format :p

I think we are eligible for d20. Hehe.

 

Unfortunately, that's actually not enough.

 

- d20 System license doesn't allow you to do anything electronic, period, and nothing that includes character creation in any event.

- OGL says things have to be "human-readable"... but that includes the binary, which is of course impossible. I researched this stuff, going so far as to contact Hasbro, Infogrames, and the original author of the OGL, earlier this year and that was what I discovered. The sad fact is that the d20/OGL licenses do not permit you to make computer games. (and in either case, d20 and OGL don't apply to second edition rules.)

 

Maybe/hopefully nobody will notice or care, but if they do, sadly you won't actually be in compliance.

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Gaider doesn't make the legal decisions, though. Although if anybody's going to care, it's more likely to be Hasbro over the ruleset.

Good thing is that we move everything out to easily readable/modifiable 2da format :p

I think we are eligible for d20. Hehe.

 

Unfortunately, that's actually not enough.

 

- d20 System license doesn't allow you to do anything electronic, period, and nothing that includes character creation in any event.

- OGL says things have to be "human-readable"... but that includes the binary, which is of course impossible. I researched this stuff, going so far as to contact Hasbro, Infogrames, and the original author of the OGL, earlier this year and that was what I discovered. The sad fact is that the d20/OGL licenses do not permit you to make computer games. (and in either case, d20 and OGL don't apply to second edition rules.)

 

Maybe/hopefully nobody will notice or care, but if they do, sadly you won't actually be in compliance.

Aww, i thought only the rules need to be human readable (and easily modifiable).

And that .2da IS human readable AND easily modifiable.

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This is from the OGL FAQ:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: I want to distribute computer software using the OGL. Is that possible?

 

A: Yes, it's certainly possible. The most significant thing that will impact your effort is that you have to give all the recipients the right to extract and use any Open Game Content you've included in your application, and you have to clearly identify what part of the software is Open Game Content.

 

One way is to design your application so that all the Open Game Content resides in files that are human-readable (that is, in a format that can be opened and understood by a reasonable person). Another is to have all the data used by the program viewable somehow while the program runs.

 

Distributing the source code not an acceptable method of compliance. First off, most programming languages are not easy to understand if the user hasnÃÂt studied the language. Second, the source code is a separate entity from the executable file. The user must have access to the actual Open Content used.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, as far as I don't hardcode anything 2nd or 3rd ad&d specific stuff, i'm good :)

I'm just curious what a 'reasonable' person means.

Hopefully, by the time GemRB is released every reasonable person can program Python...

At least replace constants in the script :p

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I came across the phrase "reasonable person" while doing the law portion of my degree, and from what I can remember it's pretty much synonymous with "the average, everyday person" - i.e. someone who has some knowledge about/skill in whatever the subject is, but isn't anthing like a specialist in the field.

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I can pass you Ryan Dancey's e-mail (he was the author of the OGL, and was product manager of D&D under Wizards/Hasbro when it was implemented) and you can discuss it with him at greater length, but his opinion was clear and firm--not only can you not make OGL video games, but you can't pair OGL with GPL (or any other license) either.

 

Although he is not currently involved with the D&D IP as an employee of Hasbro, given that he wrote the OGL and was probably fairly aware of the Hasbro/Wizards corporate goals he was trying to achieve with it, his opinion carries a lot of weight with me. It was certainly enough to discourage me from trying to use OGL for a commercial project--which I know GemRB is not, but you should at least know.

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I'd say that all in all chances of legal actions against GemRB are pretty slim:

1. It's not a new game using the engine, it's an engine port this should cause less fuss.

2. Interplay is dead

3. Hopefully Bioware will not care

4. Hasbro/Atari did not sue modders who cracked ToEE executable (or rather dll) to fix stuff (and ToEE is a much newer game).

 

The only thing that to my mind could cause any problems (well that and some office guy with too much time) is CD check. Will/does GenRB check for original CD in the drive?

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