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Thief as a D&D character


Kish

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Secondly, I beg your pardon, but how, how is Candlekeep, the fortress-library, where people are only admitted upon donating a book worth 10,000 is 'a good place' to learn to steal?

Point of order. That question is based on a still-incorrect concept of what the D&D class "thief" is. The proper question would be, "How is Candlekeep [etc.] a good place to learn to be an adventurer who picks locks, disarms traps, hides and so on?"

 

And the answer to that question is, I think, at least as evident as the answers to similar questions like, "How is Candlekeep a good place to learn to be a warrior/a priest/etc." and a great deal more evident than the answers to the versions that go with the ranger and druid classes.

Why would Gorion encourage his ward to study pick-pocketing or lock-picking?

Why should Gorion not encourage his ward to become that particular adventuring class? I could actually see an argument that the only class he should really be happy with is his own--wizard. But your post assumes, once again, that the thief class is something it isn't in D&D.

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I didnt realise the entire romance was written, sorry :)

 

To address the issue of how the pc learnt thieving, I would have thought that Gorian knew somone who had been willing to teach her, trusting that the knowledge would be used for good (but I guess it's all speculation, since I dont think the game ever explains how the pc was taught their specific trade)

 

I would have thought Ajantis would romance somone like Imoen, who is essentially a good person. (but that's Jatseys decision and I'm sure it will be a great romance regardless :) )

 

Am I right in assuming that he will romance chaotic-good characters who are not thieves, but whos ideology he does not neccesarily agree with?

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I think Great old one meant Candlekeep is a place of goodness, so anyone grewing up there and learning thievery would still be influenced by the way of good?

 

I think the attitude a thief approaches her goals would be repelling to the straight foreward-i-fear-no-confrontation paladin.

 

So, take it he doesn't appreciate the way a thief would handle things, even if she uses it for good. Stealing something to avaoid to have to fight the enemy is still.. well, a thievery. In my opinion there is no use of any sort of "trick" for a paladin (and remember: He definitely dosn't want to spare an enemies life, if this enemy is evil.) He is stunned by <CHARNAME>'s appearance, but not *that* much, if you know what I mean.

 

After all his first, and always very first priority is his duty for his god.

 

EDIT: I was too slow...

Am I right in assuming that he will romance chaotic-good characters who are not thieves, but whos ideology he does not neccesarily agree with?
He will romance good-aligned female human, half-elf, elf. And he can take some diversity to his own believes, <CHARNAME> doesn't have to believe in a god, for example. But he is very sensitive to when his own believes get insulted. :)

 

EDIT: What a spelling mistake.. :)

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EDIT: Heh, too quick on the trigger. I think Jastey's answer is more exhaustive and comes from the expert.

 

But your post assumes, once again, that the thief class is something it isn't in D&D.

 

True. It is a difficult distinction, and to be honest, I have troubles with rl vs D&D here, because D&D thief can have aspects of a rl thief. I do not want to speak for Jastey, but I think it is the 'roguishness' that counts as well in Ajantis' case. It's just the way he treats PC, and what he seems to be looking for... I think if Jastey thinks that Ajantis will have a gut dislike of rogues, D&D or real, she should go for it, because then she would be sure that her writing will sound true to whoever plays the romance.

 

But then again, narrowly targeted romances is my latest idea-fix :)

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Am I right in assuming that he will romance chaotic-good characters who are not thieves, but whos ideology he does not neccesarily agree with?

 

I just wanted to add, since it seems like a good place for it, that we are preparing BG1NPC Romance Guide for all our 6 romances, that will give all sorts of hints and relevant information to help a player to chose and win hearts and also make troubleshooting easier :)

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If Jastey really dislikes the idea of Ajantis romancing a thief, that's good enough for me, I think. After all, Ajantis is young, noble-born and idealistic. He probably was raised on theories and has had very little practical contact with the rough-and-tumble of everyday Faerun. So it's believable that a thief PC could cause him to keep his emotional distance enough to prevent a romance while still participating in the common quest. This would be an answer that says nothing about the moral character of the thief PC; just about Ajantis' own upbringing, preconceptions and prejudices. It could even form the topic of a "non-romance" banter with an otherwise eligible PC.

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@Raised in Candlekeep: A place of secrecy. locked doors and forbidden areas ladden with treasures is the place to learn how to do things secretly. Yes the old codgers never wanted you to play in that room with the funny smelling stuff, but you outwitted them.

 

Thieves are nonconfrontational characters. I cannot see why my thief would romance someone who relies so much on bashing things, if there is a more elegant solution to nearly every problem. Think about Sebastion in the Lower Ward in PST and the Zombie/Dimtree quest. Sometimes you have to force fate's hand a bit and do so without stomping through the front door. Secret agents may not be entirel legal guys, but some of them are good at least in popular fiction.

 

Good idea to exclude people from romance, because this causes the player to choose. First of all a thief has to be nimble in the head and aristocrat, tradition and paladin does not sound too nimble to me.

 

@Gorion's way of raising the ward:

 

Being a well travelled sage I would think that he has a very different grasp of what might benefit the survival of his ward than most of the monks in CK or a young paladin. This discussion also leaves out the retro explanation of class choices via stats. A weak, but dexterous child, not bright enough for a mage and not wise enough for a cleric would benefit greatly from being a thief. Since Harpers come in all shapes and sizes surely some of his friends where helpful during visits.

 

Anyway if Ajantis doesn't like thieves, I know an elf who almost certainly does. :)

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I will agree with Domi: then bards will be suspects as well. In some ways, a bard can be even a worse scoundrel than a thief: she can worm her way in with a song and then rob the owner of the house blind. Or there can be an Imoen-like bard, good-aligned but who steals from her friends and indulges in childish cruelty.

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I will agree with Domi: then bards will be suspects as well. In some ways, a bard can be even a worse scoundrel than a thief: she can worm her way in with a song and then rob the owner of the house blind. Or there can be an Imoen-like bard, good-aligned but who steals from her friends and indulges in childish cruelty.

 

And a fighter could threaten people to do what she wants, a cleric or mage could put negative spells on them, ... I guess the list is endless. The romance concept assumes one thing: that a player, who has chosen a good alignment for his/her character, will play as a good character. I tried to put in a lot of checks whether this really happens, but the possibilities are limited and I got really fed up with all those "now how do I prevent the romance to get silly for a PC that did something wrong". It's a pain in the somewhere writing for a paladin in this regard, believe me. So it still might be that Ajantis tells your PC that she is the most brave and fantastic woman he ever met after she actually just desecrated a tomb.

 

Maybe I should restrict the romance to paladins only. :)

 

To the thief thing: I will widen (narrow? :) ) the restriction to single-class thiefs only, assuming that a multiclass character uses the thiefing abilities to "back up" his powers of the other class, so to say. Hope this is convenient.

 

And one "last word", although off-topic in this thread: yes, of course a "thief" could convince a paladin of her good behaviour, if she was one of those Kish mentioned that see their career in law enforcement, just by different means. But Ajantis is young and unexpereinced (in many ways), and ancious to serve his god and fulfill his duty. He didn't start this travel with the aim of seeking a woman, not at all. The right <CHARNAME> just manages to sneak into his heart, so to say. He doesn't have the time, nor the patience, nor the will (although not on purpose consciously) to "find" this lawful good woman, if she seems (!) to be repelling in some way. **spoiler**: He won't romance <CHARNAME> if she did too many decisions that he thinks as "bad", as turning down help pleas or accepting thieving quests. He won't romance her if he gets to know about her Bhaal-heritage too early, although he still feels the same way for her. Why? Because "duty outweights it all", and he wouldn't choose a woman that seems to danger his ability to fulfill his duty.

 

These are my motives and although I am eager to hear your opinion about it I ask for your understanding that I am not going to discuss whether these are right or wrong in any way.

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It's a pain in the somewhere writing for a paladin in this regard, believe me. So it still might be that Ajantis tells your PC that she is the most brave and fantastic woman he ever met after she actually just desecrated a tomb.

 

I was just thinking how lucky I am with Shar-Teel, on the other end of the spectrum, with the alignment restriction and reputation restriction taking care of keeping it within the character. But, then again, evil romances have their own unique challenges.

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