REAL Underdark Infravision

[SixOfSpades]

Why isn't the Underdark DARK? Why is it that anyone, of any race, can be just fine and dandy down there without a single Blindfighting feat? Was there EVER any real point to casting Infravision?

• New Global variable DOWNTHERE toggles between 0 and 1, depending on whether or not the party is in a poorly-lit underground area.
  
• Humans, and any other races that do not posess inherent Infravision, take a +4 penalty to THAC0 and AC while DOWNTHERE = 1.
  
• The Helm of Infravision (and Ring, should it be reintroduced, which indeed it should, since its Description mentions that there were many of them, and "frequently used by those who dare to trade with the Drow of the Great Rift") grants immunity to these combat penalties while worn.
  
• The Spells Infravision, True Sight, and True Seeing also grant immunity during their duration.
  
• Thieves, Rangers, and Monks recieve a 40% bonus to Hide in Shadows (well, Move Silently anyway, as HiS is barely implemented) while DOWNTHERE = 1.
  

This would require an addition to the Global Script, but a rather small one, as by my count it only has to check 6 things.

[Andyr]

That'd be a fairly cool idea, actually.

 

Perhaps there could be a 'lantern' item or something you can use to temporarily cancel the effects, too.

[SixOfSpades]

Perhaps there could be a 'lantern' item or something you can use to temporarily cancel the effects, too.

I'd envisioned Torches primarily as a weapon (1D4 Blunt + 1D2 Fire, Normal weapon, Club proficiency, pretty much only useful for killing Trolls and getting past PFMW+Stoneskin), but could be quite useful for this as well. You could, for example, buy them in bundles of 5, each one has a "Light" ability that adds the Fire damage and grants immunity to darkness effects, for a set amount of time (2-3 hours, maybe) before the Torch burns out and you have to light another one. Magical, inextinguishable Torches could also be considered.

 

The problem with Torches and Lanterns, though, is that they should really grant immunity to the Darkness effects for the entire party....and that means an area-of-effect spell cast every round, and I'm not sure the global script would like that.

 

I'm thinking that instead of a boolean DOWNTHERE, there should be a scalar DARKNESS, from 1 to 5, reflecting how dark each map area is and at what times of day. Temple Ruins Night is hella dark, but Temple Ruins Day is fine & sunny. The Docks District has public lighting, but the Slums do not. For each integral value of DARKNESS, characters susceptible to the effects will take +1 penalties to THAC0 & AC, and all Stealth-capable characters recieve +10% bonuses to Move Silently. I thought about %chance of Spellcasting Failure, but that would be unfair to beneficial spells.

 

Of course, implementing this tweak for the party means having to implement it for all the enemies, too, and that might turn out to be a royal pain. The 3rd group of Random City Encounters Bandits is already tough enough without this kind of an edge.

[Borsook]

This might be of little help, IWD2 paladins' have an ability which grants fear immunity to those around him/her... dunno how it's spefically done, but this is something like the desired torch effect.

[CamDawg]

I've actually kicked around the idea of trying to make infravision useful by giving THAC0 penalties anytime it gets dark, kinda in the same type of scheme 6oS proposes. The problem is that to do it satisfactorily in any sort of fashion, it becomes complex quickly. I'll keep it on my 'I'd like to do this sometime' list.

[hlidskialf]

Hey! You guys been peeking at my notes? My Greyhawk project has a working system for all this, including area flags, light spells, torches (Which double as an inferior club-with sparks!) lanterns, etc...

As CamDawg says, it's complex, but really adds to the RPG factor IMO.

[SixOfSpades]

Hey! You guys been peeking at my notes?

I think there's a proverb about great minds.

 

[ADD] Oooo! Light spells (Continual Light, etc) would be Alteration or Conjuration and affect both the party and enemies....but Mass Infravision would be party-only, thus possibly adding some badly needed appeal to the Divination school. (Of course, the availability of Lanterns and Torches rather defeats this goal, however well-meaning.)

[BigRob]

But if Lanterns and Torches have a radius, you'd have to either have a lot of torches taking up off-hands, or keep your party very bunched up...

[hlidskialf]

But if Lanterns and Torches have a radius, you'd have to either have a lot of torches taking up off-hands, or keep your party very bunched up...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They do have a radius, same as the light spells. I've also worked a targeting modifier to those "light-bearing" folks. (Archers love those guys!) While many people will argue that the whole system can be defeated by choosing demi-humans, or infravision items, etc... Remember infravision won't let you read from a spellbook, or the classic "writing on the walls". In my case it's also relevant since I'm re-instituting 1st ed. demi-human level limits.

[SixOfSpades]

But if Lanterns and Torches have a radius, you'd have to either have a lot of torches taking up off-hands, or keep your party very bunched up...

How many Tanks do you use? I usually stick with one, myself, which means Korgan with a Torch and Shield, shining up all the enemies that go after him for the benefit of all my ranged party members, who now have excellent marks to shoot at. (Of course, this makes perfect sense in the real world, but trying to implement THAC0 penalties on a person relative to the illumination level of their target is going to be a royal pain in the ass.)

 

Remember infravision won't let you read from a spellbook, or the classic "writing on the walls". In my case it's also relevant since I'm re-instituting 1st ed. demi-human level limits. 

Whoa! I wouldn't go so far as to render spellbooks and your journal inaccessible in dark areas....and, off-topic I know, but what's the point of the level limits? To render all trueclassed demihumans completely obsolete?

[Andyr]

If his Greyhawk conversion starts from level 1 then I don't think level limits would be such a worry... unless it is a *really* big game.

[Kish]

If they exist, presumably they matter. I mean, "I'm restoring demihuman level limits" would be a fairly meaningless thing to say if no one in the game can get above level 5 anyway.

[Andyr]

I mean, say the game goes from levels 1 - 10 possible then a cap of 8 will not be that restrictive (since you might not hit the cap, and even so 8 is not that far from 10).

[Guest Taevus]

Yes, would really like to see this in a mod!

[BigRob]

How many Tanks do you use? I usually stick with one, myself, which means Korgan with a Torch and Shield, shining up all the enemies that go after him for the benefit of all my ranged party members, who now have excellent marks to shoot at. (Of course, this makes perfect sense in the real world, but trying to implement THAC0 penalties on a person relative to the illumination level of their target is going to be a royal pain in the ass.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I generally use two tanks to keep groups of nasty opponents occupied. But I also rely on those tanks to be doing damage to highly magic resistant creatures (as many of the rest of my part will be mages/clerics). If the lanterns worked by providing illumination at the target end, you wouldn't need quite so many, but you might be right about how hard that'd be to code.