Six's thoughts & input

[NiGHTMARE]

Really? It seems to me that, since Ilmater and Lathander have very little in common (at least their portfolios don't), Paladins who have dedicated their service to those deities shouldn't either. Why not adjust the spell spheres of kitted Paladins to reflect the focus of their chosen church or profession? That's one obvious way to make the pureclass Paladin a viable gaming option again.

I thought about doing this for Lands of Intrigue (not only for paladins, but rangers and druids too), but the major problem is how to implement it. There are three solutions, none of them ideal:

 

1) Restrict each kit to a specific god. For example, make it so Undead Hunters can only worship Kelemvor. This is the simplest solution, but it could lead to a lot of disagreements (both within the team and with players). With this example, Lathander and his church hate undead too, so why shouldn't he have Undead Hunters?

 

2) Replace the kits with deities instead. AFAIK none of the team would be in favour of this (including myself), simply because we find e.g. "Cavalier" to a more interesting choice than "Paladin of Sune". I'm sure many players would agree.

 

3) Have deity selection be done in-game, either via dialogue or a spell effects menu. Much discussion has taken placed about this, in regards to DR, LoI and other mods - and the general consenus seems to be that not many people like the idea. There's also the fact this solution would involve creating a seperate group of files (CLABs, etc) for every possible combination of kit and deity - a *lot* of work.

 

Not if they're not actual Warriors, they don't. Sure, the ethos fits, but your ethos doesn't count for diddly-squat when you're at 3 hitpoints and the Dragon's breathing down your neck.

It does if you've made good use of the spells available to your chosen cleric. In fact, if the dragon in question is Firkraag and you're playing a Firealker of Kossuth, you won't even need to use spells to protect yourself from his breath, since that kit's innate fire resistance should do if you're high enough level. Same goes for Stormlords of Talos's electrical resistance vs. Abazigail, the upcoming Icepriest of Auril's cold resistance vs. Adalon, etc.

 

Power-wise, a Cleric will simply get his ass creamed by a Paladin

This is no longer neccessarily true of *all* clerics. Don't forget that different kits now have their own personal selection of spells (in fact, even the trueclass cleric has a slightly different selection than he did before), and each has his own bonuses and innate abilities; the Battleguard of Tempus, for instance, can place two stars in any melee weapon usable by clerics, so he should be able to hold his own vs. paladins even in purely hand-to-hand combat.

 

Also, the new spells added by the mod may even help make up for the trueclass cleric's deficiencies. The current handful of new spells probably don't make a major difference yet, but we plan to expand upon in the future.

 

all I'm after is a way to give servants of Neutral and Evil gods a way to actually hit things, without forcing them to be Human (Priest of Foo->Fighter) or sacrificing their individuality (generic Fighter/Cleric).

If your main concern is the bonuses other classes recieve to their THAC0, damage rolls and hipoints, you're greatly overlooking the various spells which can help to rectify this: Armor of Faith, Bless, Doom, Protection From Good/Evil, Aid, Barkskin, Chant, Draw Upon Holy Might, Holy Power, Protection From Good/Evil 10' Radius, etc.

 

Divine Remix may have already brought the Ranger/Cleric back in line with its D&D counterpart, in that Druid-only spells beyond Level 3 are not available to the character (No Insect Plague for you!), thus giving the R/C a much-needed pull a few rungs down the powergaming ladder. If, however, this has not yet been done, can it be?

I'm not sure whether it has already been done, but if not it's fairly simple to do it.

 

Umm....Elves can already take the existing Archer class just fine.  Rather than create two practically identical versions of the same slightly flawed kit, I would simply correct the flaws (allowing Grandmastery in all missile weapons, but crippling their spellcasting to compensate for their power), and leave it to the player to do the roleplaying (Elven Archers get Bows, Dwarves get Crossbows, Halflings get Slings, etc).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did propose elves be restricted from Archer when the kit was intended to be part of LoI, but someone (IIRC it was Andyr) was opposed to the idea, so I dropped it. The idea is the kit builds upon the bonus all elves already have for bows; I'm afraid I definitely want it focues on bows rather than all ranged weapons.

 

I doubt anyone would be opposed to alternative rangers kits focused on different ranged weapons, though the point about dwarves and halflings is rather moot in regards to DR, since of course neither can be rangers . Still, if/when G3 ever makes a Fighter Remix mod, I'm sure it's exactly the sort of thing that we will bear in mind .

 

 

By the way, how does the following cleric kit sound to you? It's actually based on a pnp class, but of course there's no way to implement new classes in the game. Ideally, they should be allowed to use any weapon, but as you may know this is difficult to implement due to how the engine deals with restrictions.

 

CRUSADER: Crusaders are closely related to clerics, but while clerics can be described as defenders of the faith, crusaders are weapons against the enemies of the temple they serve. They are true soldier-priests, skilled in physical combat and armed with spells appropriate for the battlefield.

 

Advantages:

- Can achieve mastery in any melee weapon a cleric can use

- THAC0 improves by one at every level

 

Disadvantages:

- Cannot Turn Undead

 

Restrictions:

- Must be of a Lawful or Chaotic alignment

- Human, dwarf, elf, and half-elf only

 

Sphere Access:

- Major access to the spheres of all, combat, guardian, healing, war, and wards

- Minor access to the spheres of necromantic, and protection

- No access to the spheres of animal, astral, chaos, charm, creation, divination, elemental, law, numbers, plant, summoning, sun, thought, time, travelers, or weather

[CamDawg]

RANGERS: Divine Remix may have already brought the Ranger/Cleric back in line with its D&D counterpart, in that Druid-only spells beyond Level 3 are not available to the character (No Insect Plague for you!), thus giving the R/C a much-needed pull a few rungs down the powergaming ladder. If, however, this has not yet been done, can it be?

Yes, this is done already. A ranger-cleric only gets access to two additional spheres (animal and plant) beyond a normal cleric's access, and only up to their normal spellcasting abilities (level 3).

 

1: Entangle, Faerie Fire

2: Barkskin, Charm person or Mammal, Goodberries

3: Alicorn Lance, Call Lightning, Hold Animal, Summon Insects

[SixOfSpades]

It's not that non-LG gods don't have their ranks of elite, divine spellcasting warriors, simply that they are called something else. Googling, I found this list which I believe is correct:

LG - Paladin

NG - Sentinel

CG - Avenger

LN - Enforcer

TN - Incarnate

CN - Anarch

LE - Despot

NE - Corrupter

CE - Blackguard

 

. . . . .

 

A ranger-cleric only gets access to two additional spheres (animal and plant) beyond a normal cleric's access, and only up to their normal spellcasting abilities (level 3).

Cam, I love you. I've done some Googling of my own to try to find some background to each of those paladin (not Paladin) names, but so far, no dice. Will keep looking though.

 

Re: Infinity Engine can't handle paladins/rangers that "Rise" instead of "Fall:" What precisely is hardcoded as a Fall? Is it the greying-out of the Cast Spell, Turn Undead, Stealth buttons, together with a change to the name of the character's class? Or is it simply a change from State A to State B, in which the conditions of those states can be modified without affecting other classes/kits?

 

 

There is no reason why a Blackguard should be able to use Carsomyr.  Neutral or evil paths through the paladin stronghold would still be inappropriate; the Order of the Radiant Heart makes no claims of embracing all holy warriors.

In the PocketPlane thread, I specifically pointed out that Holy Avenger weapons would be usable only by Lawful Good paladins and Wizard Slayers. And yeah, I hardly expect a Baneguard could walk into the Radiant Heart and expect his kind hosts to cheerfully offer him tea.

 

 

1) Restrict each kit to a specific god.

2) Replace the kits with deities instead.

3) Have deity selection be done in-game, either via dialogue or a spell effects menu.

Well, what I meant to suggest was to alter each kit's spells to fit the ethos of the kit rather than a god. For example, the Inquisitor is one who studies how to fight spellcasters, not other Warriors, and therefore doesn't need any access to spells that increase physical prowess. The Cavalier dedicates himself to protecting the innocent (or the party) from beings of great power, so the only spells he needs are the purely defensive ones. Offhand, I can't think of any spells (Levels 1-4) that truly fit the Undead Hunter, but I'll admit they could do with ones that grant immunity to all the crap that Weimer's Improved Undead throw at you (what with all the Spooks and Horrors, the Cavalier is a better Undead hunter than the Undead Hunter).

 

Power-wise, a Cleric will simply get his ass creamed by a Paladin

This is no longer neccessarily true of *all* clerics. Don't forget that different kits now have their own personal selection of spells (in fact, even the trueclass cleric has a slightly different selection than he did before), and each has his own bonuses and innate abilities; the Battleguard of Tempus, for instance, can place two stars in any melee weapon usable by clerics, so he should be able to hold his own vs. paladins even in purely hand-to-hand combat.

Not a chance. Even taking the combat buffs into account (all of which can be cast by the Paladin as well, except Champion's Strength and Righteous Magic), all they do is allow the Cleric to approximate what the Paladin had right from the get-go, and without the Paladin's ApR, which is of course a key point. Only Warriors gain base ApR, only Warriors get additional ApR through weapon specialization, only Warriors can Dual-wield efficiently, and only Warriors have Saving Throws worth Tanking with.

 

By the way, how does the following cleric kit sound to you?

CRUSADER:

Advantages:

- Can achieve mastery in any melee weapon a cleric can use

- THAC0 improves by one at every level

 

Disadvantages:

- Cannot Turn Undead

 

Restrictions:

- Must be of a Lawful or Chaotic alignment

- Human, dwarf, elf, and half-elf only

 

Sphere Access:

- Major access to the spheres of all, combat, guardian, healing, war, and wards

- Minor access to the spheres of necromantic, and protection

- No access to the spheres of animal, astral, chaos, charm, creation, divination, elemental, law, numbers, plant, summoning, sun, thought, time, travelers, or weather

A Priest with a Warrior's THAC0 is good, but they should also get some bonuses to ApR....since they can't get it from investing +++ in a weapon, it seems right to give them a bonus of 1/2 an attack per round, gained at Levels 8 and 14, roughly in line with when those bonuses will be gained by Warriors. I would also allow the Crusader full access to the Weapon Styles, and add the Disadvantages of subtracting 1 spellslot per level from the Crusader's Priest Scroll, and/or imposing a WIS penalty, and also locking out a Dual-class to Fighter or Ranger, due to the THAC0 and ApR bonuses. This kit will still crumple against a paladin, Fighter/Cleric, or Ranger/Cleric, but for a trueclass Priest's attempt at a Warrior, it's pretty good. In fact, it's a lot closer to what I expected the Battleguard of Tempus to be like--personally, I vastly prefer the Starcraft way of making things "different but equal" to the Age of Empires way.

I don't see the reasoning behind your Restrictions on the Crusader, though.

 

I did propose elves be restricted from Archer when the kit was intended to be part of LoI, but someone (IIRC it was Andyr) was opposed to the idea, so I dropped it.  The idea is the kit builds upon the bonus all elves already have for bows; I'm afraid I definitely want it focues on bows rather than all ranged weapons. I doubt anyone would be opposed to alternative rangers kits focused on different ranged weapons, though the point about dwarves and halflings is rather moot in regards to DR, since of course neither can be rangers .

Okay, I see your point in that the Archer (and Generic Archer) kit essentially negates the Elves' -1 THAC0 bonus with Bows by making it trivial in comparison, but that's no reason to use up all the slots for Ranger (or Fighter) kits with only slightly different flavors of what is essentially all the same kit. (Yes, I realize that you're actually only adding one kit, but it's the principle of the thing. When other people suggest more unique Ranger kits, the Bowslinger is going to be the first to go.)

 

 

Oh, and SoS, it's always a pleasure to read your feeback on stuff, be it DR or any other mod.

Whatever floats your boat, man.

[Bursk]

FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with SoS regarding the Archer and Bowslinger kits. When you look at them side by side, the Archer looks like a crappy version of the Bowslinger. Why have both, when the Bowslinger is probably what the Archer should've been all along? I don't see why someone who wants to play that kind of character would choose the Archer over the Bowslinger.

 

What about having an optional component that allows you to replace the Archer kit with an Archer kit that has the Bowslinger's characteristics? Again I have to agree with SoS that the Bowslinger will probably end up being the most redundant Ranger kit.

[NiGHTMARE]

Re: Infinity Engine can't handle paladins/rangers that "Rise" instead of "Fall:" What precisely is hardcoded as a Fall? Is it the greying-out of the Cast Spell, Turn Undead, Stealth buttons, together with a change to the name of the character's class? Or is it simply a change from State A to State B, in which the conditions of those states can be modified without affecting other classes/kits?

The former. Essentially they become the equivalent of a fighter, only still limited in their proficiences, and the like. I'm not sure whether the kits retain their restrictions (e.g. cavaliers being unable to use missile weapons), though.

 

Not a chance. Even taking the combat buffs into account (all of which can be cast by the Paladin as well, except Champion's Strength and Righteous Magic), all they do is allow the Cleric to approximate what the Paladin had right from the get-go, and without the Paladin's ApR, which is of course a key point. Only Warriors gain base ApR, only Warriors get additional ApR through weapon specialization, only Warriors can Dual-wield efficiently, and only Warriors have Saving Throws worth Tanking with.

Well, they should hardly have *all* the combat bonuses of a paladin, plus spells of levels 5-7. If that were the case, it'd then be the paladin who gets his arse kicked in every fight. As for saving throws, I'm not sure what you're talking about there - clerics have *better* saving throws than warriors, not the other way around.

 

A Priest with a Warrior's THAC0 is good, but they should also get some bonuses to ApR....since they can't get it from investing +++ in a weapon, it seems right to give them a bonus of 1/2 an attack per round, gained at Levels 8 and 14, roughly in line with when those bonuses will be gained by Warriors. I would also allow the Crusader full access to the Weapon Styles, and add the Disadvantages of subtracting 1 spellslot per level from the Crusader's Priest Scroll, and/or imposing a WIS penalty, and also locking out a Dual-class to Fighter or Ranger, due to the THAC0 and ApR bonuses.

There needs to still be a reason to play a fighter or a paladin, and a kit which is essentially a fighter/cleric with almost half the XP requirements would remove that reason . A penalty to number of spells per level isn't an option, since the engine really doesn't like that, as this very mod demonstrated when it was still Cleric Remix. The no dual-classing thing is a good point, and one I hadn't thought of before.

 

I don't see the reasoning behind your Restrictions on the Crusader, though.

As mentioned, it's based on a pnp class (from the Faiths & Avatars book, the same source as most of DR's speciality priest kits), and the Lawful/Chaotic thing is from there. The rule about no half-orcs is because they have a similarly themed (but different enough in abilities) kit all to themselves, the War Priest.

 

Okay, I see your point in that the Archer (and Generic Archer) kit essentially negates the Elves' -1 THAC0 bonus with Bows by making it trivial in comparison, but that's no reason to use up all the slots for Ranger (or Fighter) kits with only slightly different flavors of what is essentially all the same kit. (Yes, I realize that you're actually only adding one kit, but it's the principle of the thing. When other people suggest more unique Ranger kits, the Bowslinger is going to be the first to go.)

 

It doesn't contribute to "using up all the slots" and it isn't going to get removed from the mod, because like I said every kit is an entirely optional component. If you don't want to use it, there's no reason you have to install it.

[SixOfSpades]

Essentially they become the equivalent of a fighter, only still limited in their proficiences, and the like.  I'm not sure whether the kits retain their restrictions (e.g. cavaliers being unable to use missile weapons), though.

I believe they do; Fallen characters retain all the handicaps of their kit and none of the benefits, or at least I've never heard any evidence contrary to that rule. I was just wondering if the conditions of what happens when you Fall could be tweaked.

 

Well, they should hardly have *all* the combat bonuses of a paladin, plus spells of levels 5-7.  If that were the case, it'd then be the paladin who gets his arse kicked in every fight.  As for saving throws, I'm not sure what you're talking about there - clerics have *better* saving throws than warriors, not the other way around.

True. Making a Cleric that permanently has all a Warrior's combat skills is just dusting the doormat for powergamers who wish to Dual to Mage. I do have to disagree about the Saving Throws, though: at 2.5 Million EXP, a Fighter is Level 18, and a Cleric Level 19. I made a Multiplayer game with 4 characters, the Humans with stats of all 9s, and the Dwarves with the same stats except for their 19 CON.

Human Fighter: 3/5/4/4/6

Human Cleric: 2/6/5/8/7

Dwarven Fighter: 0/0/4/4/1

Dwarven Cleric: 0/1/5/8/2

So Warriors do indeed have the better Saves, although I admit that the difference is negligible if you ignore everything but Death and Spells, the only two Saving Throws that ever get used. IIRC, however, Warriors get at least one more bonus to their Saves after Level 18, and Priests do not.

 

A penalty to number of spells per level isn't an option, since the engine really doesn't like that, as this very mod demonstrated when it was still Cleric Remix.

Really! That seems odd--you can add to spells per level, but not subtract? Or is it only a problem when the # of spells per level is calculated to be less than 1?

 

I don't see the reasoning behind your Restrictions on the Crusader, though.

As mentioned, it's based on a pnp class (from the Faiths & Avatars book, the same source as most of DR's speciality priest kits), and the Lawful/Chaotic thing is from there.

What I meant was that I can't detect any reasoning behind the rule: I can see a Crusader being Lawful because he jumps to follow the orders of his god, or being Chaotic because he just likes to smash things, but why can't he combine those two qualities and be Neutral? It just strikes me funny.

 

It doesn't contribute to "using up all the slots" and it isn't going to get removed from the mod, because like I said every kit is an entirely optional component.  If you don't want to use it, there's no reason you have to install it.

I see your point. If it does no harm, then, what's the harm?

[Andyr]

Cam and the other guys have responded to most of the stuff in my absence, so I will deal with what is left. First off, thanks for the kind words regarding the mod (and the suggestions).

 

DRUIDS: The Oozemaster is, frankly, overpowered. Abilities and immunities that would seem more fitting for ToB-level characters are compressed into a SoA timeframe. A Level 7 Druid that can take out an entire Beholder Hive?

 

Really, you've managed that?

 

I suggest making the Oozemaster's progress much more gradual: Make their Shapeshift ability go through many successively stronger forms, starting at Gray Ooze or some such, rather than jumping right in with the Mustard Jelly.

 

I had thought about that but at the time was lazy. So, possibly a change for the future.

 

Their immunities to Acid and Poison could also be slowly built up, as opposed to suddenly springing into being.

 

In PnP they are gained like that, IIRC, though it would make more sense to make it stepwise.

 

Also, with everything happening in Levels 1-15, there's no incentive to remain an Oozemaster--might as well Dual at Level 15 (though I think the CHA penalty prevents this).

 

Yeah, the CHR penalty would stop you. As for stopping at level 15, it is because Level 14 is meant to be the highest you can go without becoming Great Druid or something in PnP. If you look at the experience charts, there is a sudden leap whereby druids get to level 12 or so pretty fast but then 14 is 1.5 million XP and 15 is not reached until 3 million... Any suggestions as to what to push out until later?

 

Also, Jellies are immune to Backstab (as they have no "back"), not Critical Hits.

 

I don't know the old rules; I made it Critical Hits due to them having no internal anatomy at that stage (i.e. no crticical location to hit).

 

I also find the ethos of the kit so similar to the Gray Druid

 

It is based off a 3E Prestige Class; it is possible the Grey Druid was the older equivalent.

 

I was also surprised that Remix's only added Druid kit was the Oozemaster, seeing as how I thought the Hivemaster was just begging to be made, especially with Pai'Na already in-game.

 

There was only a week or so in between v1 and v2, give us time to make the kits! The Oozemaster got done mostly because I had some code from an old Mur'Neth concept, so it was fast to finish. The Hivemaster is another thing I had thought of - either that or the Vermin Keeper, based off a 3E PrC. Similar in ethos though it can still shapeshift into vermin (so rats, spiders, carrion crawlers). We'll see what future versions have.

 

I have an idea for a Ranger kit, the Journeyman, but I can't submit it because it's what the Bard should have been (by which I mean it renders the entire Bard class obsolete).

 

As Cam said, you'll make me cry! Bards rock. But post away.

[Galactygon]

A penalty to number of spells per level isn't an option, since the engine really doesn't like that, as this very mod demonstrated when it was still Cleric Remix.

Really! That seems odd--you can add to spells per level, but not subtract? Or is it only a problem when the # of spells per level is calculated to be less than 1?

You can subtract spell slots as I have done for wisdom requirements for certain spell levels. Six is right that the amount of spells you subtract may not exceed the amount of spell slots you would normally have. Considering that you will have to consider the amount of spell slots increase as the priest becomes more powerful, it can be quite tricky.

 

-Galactygon

[CamDawg]

You can subtract spell slots as I have done for wisdom requirements for certain spell levels. Six is right that the amount of spells you subtract may not exceed the amount of spell slots you would normally have. Considering that you will have to consider the amount of spell slots increase as the priest becomes more powerful, it can be quite tricky.

 

-Galactygon

This was one of the techniques we tried, but it also doesn't work.

[SixOfSpades]

A Level 7 Druid that can take out an entire Beholder Hive?

Really, you've managed that?

Mustard Jelly: 100% Magic Resistance, 100% Piercing Resistance. Every single Beholderkin gaze attack can be blocked by MR, they have no means of lowering MR, and their melee attacks do Piercing damage. So Mustard Jellies only have one thing to worry about when facing Beholders: In the default game, it's that single casting of Imprisonment, and with Tougher Beholders installed, it's the Poison on their bites. And for extra cheese, equip some good weapons beforehand: Anti-Magic Ray won't dispel the Magic and Piercing Resistances gained from shifting to Mustard Jelly, but it will dispel your funky, non-unequippable ooze attack, leaving Blackblood + Belm in its place. Carve away, little Level 7 Druid, because nothing can hurt you.

 

I suggest making the Oozemaster's progress much more gradual: Make their Shapeshift ability go through many successively stronger forms, starting at Gray Ooze or some such, rather than jumping right in with the Mustard Jelly.

I had thought about that but at the time was lazy. So, possibly a change for the future.

Yeah, that's exactly the same reason that the Hivemaster's description jumps right to Sword Spider, instead of spending some time in the Regular/Huge/Giant Spider forms. Attributes of the Wraith and Phase Spiders might be gained at later levels, too.

 

Any suggestions as to what to push out until later?

The immunities to disease, blindness, sleep, paralysis, stunning and critical hits (backstab) could be handed out one at a time instead of mostly at Level 15. And, as I've mentioned, the Poison and Acid Resistances could be ramped back into the ToB phase.

 

I don't know the old rules; I made it Critical Hits due to them having no internal anatomy at that stage (i.e. no crticical location to hit).

The very same logic would apply to making them immune to Backstab, which can be (more) easily implemented and seems to make a bit more sense. Besides, any Druid with more than a single gold piece to his name is going to be protected from Critical Hits anyway.

 

I also find the ethos of the kit so similar to the Gray Druid

It is based off a 3E Prestige Class; it is possible the Grey Druid was the older equivalent.

You're probably correct. Maybe the two should be combined?

 

As Cam said, you'll make me cry! Bards rock. But post away.

Stay tuned.

[SixOfSpades]

JOURNEYMAN

 

Class: Ranger

Race: Human, Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc

Alignment: Any Good, or TN

 

Equally at home in the city or the wilderness, in times of war or peace, Journeymen are usually isolated loners, roaming the lands at will, developing many casual relationships but few close bonds to any one person or place. They tend not to stay in groups very long, preferring to work alone, and their haphazard distribution of skills shows it: Nearly equal parts Fighter, Cleric, Druid, Bard, Thief, and Mage, there is very little that they cannot accomplish on their own, and they commonly feel that credit should go where it is due--to them. They will commonly drift into an area, do whatever needs doing, collect their fee (usually including the goodwill and/or amorous intentions of the townsfolk), and depart with the changing wind.

Although Journeymen are capable of casting Wizard spells, these are learned through careful study of the world around them, and partially through a natural affinity for magic such as that displayed by Sorcerers. The downside of not spending years of training poring over ancient texts of arcane knowledge, however, is that Journeymen are completely unable to decipher Wizard spell scrolls, or even use most wands. They are also almost wholly unfamiliar with the complex array of illusions, protection spells, and counterspells that Wizards employ in combat--Journeymen prefer to concern themselves with more easily understandable effects, such as fighting harder, running faster, blasting their enemies with fire and ice, and bringing fallen companions back to life.

 

ADVANTAGES:

* Gains access to the 4th and 5th levels of Druid spells, to a maximum of 5 spellslots per level (see table)

* Gains access to certain Wizard and Cleric spells, cast as equivalent-level Druid spells (see list)

* Special Ability of Bard Song, as per a trueclass Level 1 Bard

* Gains ToB HLAs of Magic Flute, Evasion, Avoid Death, Set Exploding Trap, Alchemy, and Summon Deva

* Minimum of 15 Charisma

 

DISADVANTAGES:

* May not wear any metal armor

* +3 penalty to all Saving Throws

* Loses 1D4 hitpoints at each Level Up from Levels 1 through 9

* May place only a single proficiency point in any weapon or weapon style

* Does not get free proficiency in Dual-Wielding

* +1 penalty to THAC0 every 3 levels (stops after Level 21)

* Does not get access to certain Druid spells available to normal Rangers (see list)

* Does not get ToB HLAs of Greater Whirlwind, Greater Deathblow, Critical Strike, or War Cry

* May not Dual-Class

Spell Table:                    Spell List:

 

Level | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5       [1:] Armor of Faith, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Command

---------------------------     Word: Die, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Doom,

 8   | 1 |   |   |   |         Entangle, Find Familiar, Friends, Identify, Protection

 9   | 2 |   |   |   |         from Evil, Remove Fear, Shillelagh, Sleep.

10   | 2 | 1 |   |   |         [2:] Agannazar's Scorcher, Barkskin, Charm Person or  

11   | 2 | 2 |   |   |         Mammal, Draw Upon Holy Might, Find Traps, Flame Blade,

12   | 2 | 2 | 1 |   |         Find Traps, Goodberry, Horror, Knock, Luck, Resist

13   | 3 | 2 | 2 |   |         Fire/Cold, Silence 15' Radius, Slow Poison, Stinking Cloud.

14   | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 |         [3:] Animate Dead, Call Lightning, Cure Disease, Cure

15   | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 |         Medium Wounds, Dispel Magic, FireBall, Flame Arrow,

16   | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1       Haste, Invisibility Purge, Protection from Cold,

17   | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2       Protection from Fire, Slow, Strength of One, Summon

18   | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2       Insects, Zone of Sweet Air.  

19   | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2       [4:] Animal Summoning I, Call Woodland Beings, Cloak of

20   | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2       Fear, Confusion, Contagion, Cure Serious Wounds, Death

21   | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3       Ward, Defensive Harmony, Farsight, Fireshield Blue,

22   | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3       Fireshield Red, Free Action, Ice Storm, Mental

23   | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3       Domination, Polymorph Self.

24   | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3       [5:] Animal Summoning II, Chaotic Commands, Cone of Cold,

25   | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4       Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental, Cure Critical Wounds,

26   | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4       Flame Strike, Insect Plague, Iron Skins, Mass Cure,

27   | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4       Phantom Blade, Lower Resistance, Raise Dead, Slay Living,

28   | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4       Sunfire, True Seeing.

29+  | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5    

[Andyr]

Heh, I hadn't realised that Mustard Jellies had MR quite that high. May look into balancing it somewhat.

 

Why do you say any druid will be protected from critical hits? They can't wear helmets, so it'd have to wait until Ioun Stones ot the like. Adding Backstab immunity would make sense (though it is exactly as hard to code for as Critical Hits).

 

I may post a revised description at some point soon, though I'd try to make it not too complex (i.e. not a massive sprawl of bonuses and penalties, as it is in danger of becoming).

 

The Journeyman kit is interesting. There are, though, a few issues. Namely we cannot make Halforcs pick Ranger in character creation (hardcoded), and a TN Ranger could be made but would still be able to Fall. It might also be tricky to allow up to level 5 spells; we could add them but would have to patch other Ranger kits with spell slot removal which was the opcode causing so much bother and bugs for no apparant reason in earlier versions of Cleric Remix.

 

In addition, I think the 2 free dual-wield points is automatic for Rangers. Spell restriction is a nice idea though we'd probably want to streamline it and just quote spheres (plus whatever other Wizard spells there are).

 

The idea sounds vaguely similar to a kit Nick proposed called the Seeker, so you may see more of that in the future.

[Guest Notasophist]

Uh, a question regarding the Mustard Jelly's high resistances: aren't they true to AD&D stats? (don't have the information at hand)

 

If that were the case and if i were the DM of BG2, i would consider transforming into a mustard jelly a smart move by the players, not blatant exploitation.

 

Buying shield of Balduran for no apparent reason before knowing there's a beholder cult under Athkatla = poor Roleplaying

 

Turning into a mustard jelly after realizing you're in a beholder cave = smart roleplaying

[Galactygon]

This was one of the techniques we tried, but it also doesn't work.

 

I can send over a sample file via e-mail, once I get to my next screenshot update for my mod (it is bound to happen in the next few days).

 

-Galactygon

[Caedwyr]

I think by not working, Camdawg means that there were some rather random and unpredictable bugs which seemed to pop up for no apparant reason on some people's installs. It appears that the technique that was tried didn't work consistently for everyone.