Scrolls Usage/Potions Tweak

[Salk]

Hello!

 

The idea is to gray out scrolls' (both Arcane and Divine) usage untill the user has the skill that comes only by the combination of a high enough ability (Int or Wis or Cha) and level.

 

I fail to see any kind of logic and/or consistency in allowing a mind to unleash the power of what is beyond comprehension. It's not enough to be able to read magic to understand and master a spell. A receptive/supernatural mind and a certain degree of knowledge is needed. In case of Divine spells, a certain empathy with God is needed. It's not a simple repetition of a sequence of words that should trigger a successful enchantment.

 

It's simply ridicolous that - example - a first level Mage with average Intelligence might cast a Wish spell only because it's written on a scroll and at the same time, due to his/her limitations, can't ever memorize it (and THIS is fair). I wonder actually why nobody else has though of such thing before...

 

So in short here I am asking for a volunteer who would not mind creating a tweak that would change the basic rules according to my description. Thanks!

[the bigg]

In PnP, you could cast a spell from an higher level, but received a % chance of screwing up (5% per difference level IIRC), and I don't remember about the INT/WIS requirement.

 

This should be implementable, though, with a bit of usage of adequate EFFs and the DV settings.

 

However, this looks impratical to me (especially deciding the filename pattern for all those EFFs).

[NiGHTMARE]

I don't know about level requirements, but using the same intelligent requirements that determine the maximum spell level a caster has access to seems a good idea. That would be 10 for 5th level spells, 12 for 6th level, 14 for 7th level, 16 for 8th level, and 18 for 9th level

[the bigg]

I don't know about level requirements, but using the same intelligent requirements that determine the maximum spell level a caster has access to seems a good idea.  That would be 10 for 5th level spells, 12 for 6th level, 14 for 7th level, 16 for 8th level, and 18 for 9th level

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye, that'd be easy to do at least

[Andyr]

Yeah, that'd make some sense and be pretty simple coding.

[Salk]

The partial solution doesn't seem so great. Even because BG players have always "cheated" when trying to learn spells without failing by drinking the INT potions (and the same might do the Clerics that will want to cast higher levels spells without having the necessary WIS) so I'd still advocate the complete change... If any would be interested we could discuss it in private more into the details...Thanks!

[NiGHTMARE]

There's no way that we *could* make it only affect mages - sorcerers and bards would be automatically affected as well.

 

However, I don't think there should be either INT or WIS requirements for priest scrolls, since there's no WIS requirement for priest spell levels (and before you ask, it most likely wouldn't be possible to implement such a thing - at least not without re-introducing the spellbook bug made infamous by Cleric Remix ).

[Galactygon]

since there's no WIS requirement for priest spell levels...

 

... and there is no INT requirement for mage spell levels.

 

-Galactygon

[NiGHTMARE]

Take a look at INTMOD.2DA, specifically column 3 (MAX_SPELL_LEVEL).

[Salk]

I do believe there are Wisdom and Intelligence requirements for Clerics and Mages.

 

Check this tables (from AD&D 2nd Edition - the rules used in the Baldur's Gate series):

 

Spell Progression Charts by Class

 

CLERIC / DRUID

 

Spell Levels ----> 1 2 3 4 5 6* 7**

 

Exp. Level

1 1 - - - - - -

2 2 - - - - - -

3 2 1 - - - - -

4 3 2 - - - - -

5 3 3 1 - - - -

6 3 3 2 - - - -

7 3 3 2 1 - - -

8 3 3 3 2 - - -

9 4 4 3 2 1 - -

10 4 4 3 2 2 - -

11 5 4 4 3 2 1 -

12 6 5 5 3 2 2 -

13 6 6 6 4 2 2 -

14 6 6 6 5 3 2 1

15 6 6 6 6 4 2 1

16 7 7 7 6 4 3 1

17 7 7 7 7 5 3 2

18 8 8 8 8 6 4 2

19 9 9 8 8 6 4 2

20 9 9 9 8 7 5 2

 

* Use of 6th level spells requires a WIS of 17 or greater

** Use of 7th level spells requires a WIS of 18 or greater

 

Intelligence as it relates to Mages

 

Intelligence Max Spell Level % to Learn Spell # Spells / Level

8 -- can't cast magic at these levels --

9 4th 35% 6

10 5th 40 7

11 5th 45 7

12 6th 50 7

13 6th 55 9

14 7th 60 9

15 7th 65 11

16 8th 70 11

17 8th 75 14

18 9th 85 18

19 9th 95 All

20 9th 96 All

21 9th 97 All

22 9th 98 All

23 9th 99 All

24 9th 100 All

25 9th 100 All

 

So a Mage with only 17 INT can't learn 9th level spells, has a 75% chance to

copy a scroll into his spellbook, and can only learn 14 spells per level

anyway. Thus we see why having an 18 INT mage is important.

[Guest Guest]

Take a look at INTMOD.2DA, specifically column 3 (MAX_SPELL_LEVEL).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then why could Aerie learn level 9 spells?

 

-Galactygon

[NiGHTMARE]

Salk: Not all 2E rules are implemented in the games, and the wisdom requirements are one of them. Besides, IIRC there are no 6th or 7th level priest scrolls in BG2 anyway .

 

Galactygon: She can learn them, but can she actually memorize or cast them?

[Salk]

NiGHTMARE,

 

I actually can't remember if in ToB a cleric ever can advance so much in levels to gain 6th and 7th level spells but I seem to remember they do since the Experience Cap is very very high.

 

But the point is not this. The point is that it seems to me inconsistent to have a Cleric with, let's say, Wisdom 14 and Level 1, cast *from a scroll* a succesfull spell of Raise Dead.

 

Same thing for arcane Magic...I can't stand the foolishness of letting, let's say, a first level Bard, cast Wish just because it's read from a scroll.

 

It's totally insane...To master Magic of such levels both a supernatural mind and an enormous experience in the class should be required. Precisely like it works for memorizing spells or for having them granted from the Gods.

 

I hope I made myself a little more clear...Thank you all for your interest!

[NiGHTMARE]

6th and 7th level priest spells are in the game, but 6th and 7th level priest *scrolls* are not .

[Salk]

Very good point, NiGHTMARE...It was such a long time since I played Baldur's Gate...

 

However, we should take a look at mage scrolls instead...I am sure there are many scattered around.

 

But, as I mentioned, it'd be important to introduce a barrier to the scroll utilization based on the current level of the caster because you know well that by drinking a potion of intelligence a player can "legally" cheat and go round the ability limit too easily.

 

The goal would be to never see again a mage of low level casting spells that shouldn't be able to comprehend and master. The fact that the spell is written on a scroll instead of his own grimoire shouldn't really make a difference...