Scrolls Usage/Potions Tweak

[NiGHTMARE]

#3 also shows merit. I like your version, NiGHTMARE, though I don't see why you needed to change the name of the Potion of Perception.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've altered the potion of Perception too, so that it provides +25% to detect illusions, +20% to find/remove traps, +10% to open locks, +1 THAC0, and a -2 penalty to saves vs. paralyzation. It also lasts only 6 turns, instead of 6 hours .

[Salk]

SixOfSpades,

 

happy of your success in testing the Intelligence modificators! I remember NiGHTMARE telling me pretty much at the beginning of this thread that making Bards unable to use 7th Level Scrolls or higher wouldn't at all be a problem though...

 

Personally I would not let the "Odds to Cast Spells" go beyond 100%.

 

About potion, I am favorable to solution one. Number two would be nice but it would affect negatively the game by locking INT for a period. So not favorable. I think number three is viable and a good solution, so yes to it.

I would also perhaps make every potion drinkable by any character (but I don't know if this goes actually against some engine limitations ?) because it would be realistic without affecting negatively the gameplay. So no real obstacle to this. I'd say that those classes that can't directly benefit from their effects would just end up wasting them (ex. A Wizard that drinks a potion of Thievery). Problem is that if we want to do this, we really need to reduce the number of Potions like Invulnerability or Giant Strenght ecc. ecc. of a good number...

[NiGHTMARE]

I've added both scroll intelligence requirements and bards being unable to use 8th and 9th level spells to Arcane Remix, on the G3 Wiki.

 

I decided to make the INT requirements to cast a spell from a scroll slightly lower than the requirements to cast the same spell from a spellbook, as it gives scrolls a purpose beyond just being something to add to the spellbook. That 16 INT mage will still be able to cast 9th level spells, but he'd better have plenty of money .

 

Note that bards are still able to use 7th level spells. This is because in Arcane Remix they gain 7th level spells, starting at 25th level.

[Galactygon]

The only trouble is there is no way I know of that could prevent bards and characters with insufficient INT scores to scribe a spell from a scroll, because you may do so even if you don't have the scroll equipped.

 

-Galactygon

[Salk]

It's a step towards the right direction, NiGHTMARE...I'd like to know if SixOfSpades' modification might also be implemented as I think they were really interesting and consistent. Perhaps the best solution since a better one can't coded because of engine limitations like you guys said...

 

P.S. Personally I'd have not made the INT requirements any different from the scroll and spellbook spells because the scrolls, even with the same INT requirements (and sincerely, it strikes me pretty much as bizarre to see that the same spell requires different INT scores), are extremely useful and have a vital function: to be transfered to the Spellbook! And also to be used during fights with casting time 0 (if I am not wrong). So please reconsider this if you can or else make it a optional install on Arcade Remix...

[NiGHTMARE]

It's a step towards the right direction, NiGHTMARE...I'd like to know if SixOfSpades' modification might also be implemented as I think they were really interesting and consistent. Perhaps the best solution since a better one can't coded because of engine limitations like you guys said...

 

Unfortunately, engine limitations means most of what he suggested is also impossible.

 

and sincerely, it strikes me pretty much as bizarre to see that the same spell requires different INT scores

 

It's bizarre that remembering something requires slightly more intelligence than reading the same thing directly from a piece of paper?

[Salk]

It's bizarre that remembering something requires slightly more intelligence than reading the same thing directly from a piece of paper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, it is because Intelligence is not just how much you can memorize but goes much beyond that...The difficulty of casting higher levels spells is not absolutely in remembering the vocal component (I believe that some level 1 spells might have more words to memorize than a level 9 spell) but in understanding it. Thus Intelligence requirements should not be different for casting memorized spells and spells on scrolls. They are identical.

[NiGHTMARE]

Yes, understanding the spell requires a lot of intelligence. But what you're saying is that remembering a complicated spell should require 0 intelligence, which I disagree with. Also, I haven't made it so the higher level the spell, the more intelligence is needed to remember it; casting a memorized spell requires the same intelligence as reading it directly from a scroll, plus two.

 

In other words, it takes an intelligence of 16 to understand a 9th level spell, and an extra two points to remember it correctly .

[Guest Guest]

Yes, understanding the spell requires a lot of intelligence.  But what you're saying is that remembering a complicated spell should require 0 intelligence, which I disagree with.  Also, I haven't made it so the higher level the spell, the more intelligence is needed to remember it; casting a memorized spell requires the same intelligence as reading it directly from a scroll, plus two.

 

In other words, it takes an intelligence of 16 to understand a 9th level spell, and an extra two points to remember it correctly .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do understand your point although I can't really agree with it. IMHO reading a spell from a scroll shouldnt actually make anything easier for one wizards Intelligence. Spells can be extremely complicated but I dont think the meaning of its difficulty is that it's complicated to reproduce them correctly (the famous Vocal/Somatic/ Material) but to understand its deep meaning and its arcane potential.

[NiGHTMARE]

An INT of 1 is animal level intelligence, so I wouldn't really call something which requires an INT of 2 "complicated" .

[Salk]

An Int requirement of 2 doesn't mean anything. The "problem" is that you want to add that number to Int requirements for spells

[BigRob]

Remember though, that with a scroll someone has already done some of the work for you, simplified the formula into something quicker to use than a spell written down in a spellbook. You can't cast the spells scribed in your spellbook like they were scrolls, can you?

[Salk]

My perspective may be biased (it wouldnt certainly be the first time) but I still believe spells of the same level should require the same Intelligence for being cast no matter if it's a spell that you have memorized or if it is cast directly from the scroll.

 

We could discuss however the chance of failure making it higher for memorized spells. This could be consistent as the scroll is undoubtedly a "help". To thisI would be completely favourable.

 

Would this be frustrated again by the usual engine limitations that appears to put me down every time I think of something ?

[NiGHTMARE]

It would be possible to add a chance of failure to casting memorized spells without also affecting spells cast from scrolls, and even to make the chance of failure larger the higher level the spell, and/or decrease the chance as the mage increases in levels. However, given that there's already a chance of failure when learning a new spell, is it really neccessary to do so? I can also see such a tweak being so annoying that only a tiny handful of people would want to use it on a permanent basis.

 

A tweak which removes intelligence restrictions on spells, and makes intelligence determine the chance of spellcasting failure (e.g. a mage with INT 9 only has a 19% chance to successfully cast a 9th level spell, while a mage with INT 18 has a 100% chance) would perhaps be more welcome, but unfortunately I don't think it could be done; at least, not without intensive scripting.

[Salk]

NiGHTMARE,

 

I think you are right about this actually. The spell system would really become too convoluted. I'd not however like to remove the Int requirement for spells even if it was possible to substitute it with what you suggested later: pretty smart but too revolutionary for one thing and making also wizardry dangerously resemble sorcery.

 

Oh well...If the different INT requirements for same spells could at least be made optional, I'd be grateful as I intend however to enjoy Arcane Remix and one final thing: thanks!