Minimal Acknowledgement of Other NPC

[SimDing0]

Well, here is my Suggestion #1:

I think you're overthinking this somewhat. I maintain that modding evolves best when groups of people who get on interact. Trying to dictate what is and isn't allowed without that interaction is formalizing the whole procedure, and really, I don't think it's that difficult to chat to somebody whose mod you think should interact with yours. (And if the author's fairly blatantly vanished, then yes, fair game and all.)

 

Imagine if Anomen was a modded character, and his author was insisting that all other characters would give only loving and adoring feedback about him... 

Then I wouldn't bother modding Anomen. And I think that has to form the essence of my recommendation in this topic: if an author is unreasonably protective or unhelpful, then simply don't bother trying to collaborate-- chances are it's not a mod you're that interested in anyway.

 

Well, in my opinion it is a chore to compose endless PM's, especially to people who will not reply to them, and over things that as Grim had mentioned, do not modify or affect their NPC in any way.

Which is why I believe IRC is a Good Thing. I doubt it's any accident that the people who frequent #gibberlings3 and #ppgmod are the people I tend to interact with most on modding tasks.

[jcompton]

Yes, clearly, you can't assume one agrees to a specific code of conduct just because they've downloaded WeiDU. (Long-time followers of our sport may remember a time when Ken actually did try to impose a code of conduct as a condition for downloading TeamBG utilities--one of the more laughably low moments of his tenure.)

 

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to suggest a Creative Commons-style coding classification system people can put in their mods (like the README/disclaimer suggestion above) that designates what "can" and "can't" be done, but again, that falls down on various levels, including all the modders who can't be located or simply can't be bothered to sit down and work out exactly what they want done to whom.

 

I still feel that the debate must ultimately fall through to "If we are modders, then let us mod." If an individual wants to respect someone's character design by not messing with it or volunteering new dialogue, if someone wants to collaborate with an author to ensure that the new dialogues are (hypothetically) "as good as they can be", and so they can proudly put

 

* A Friendship track with Alassa, co-written by the original author!

 

in their announcement as a selling point, then that's fine. But I can't support inherently believing mods are more sacred than core content.

[NiGHTMARE]

Isn't it more like believing that respecting those people you interact with on a regular basis and are likely to play your mod, is more important than respecting those people you're going to speak to once or twice at best, and who are unlikely to ever play your mod?

[Domi]

Then I wouldn't bother modding Anomen. And I think that has to form the essence of my recommendation in this topic: if an author is unreasonably protective or unhelpful, then simply don't bother trying to collaborate-- chances are it's not a mod you're that interested in anyway.

 

And, as I stated above some things will only make sense if and only if it is done for all characters equally. Such as other romances feedback. Good luck getting Lord Mirrabo's or Weimer's feedback.

 

Which is why I believe IRC is a Good Thing. I doubt it's any accident that the people who frequent #gibberlings3 and #ppgmod are the people I tend to interact with most on modding tasks.

 

And that brings you back ultimately to the practice of 'personal contacts'. Diplomacy and Making Friends then must be the skill required for sucessful modding? How very... Molchalin. I guess, I shall now go and seek a qualified intermediary to intervene on my behalf to add Edwin's romance reactions.

[SimDing0]

And, as I stated above some things will only make sense if and only if it is done for all characters equally.

I don't agree. If I offer Mang0 some interjections for his quest mod and he responds by blindly swearing at me for two pages, I'll happily announce whom the audience should complain to when they find my NPC doesn't interject into his mod, and move on, because I don't want his quests anyway. It'll rapidly emerge from this which characters interact well together and which don't, and I think it's fine for that to influence players' mod choices.

 

And that brings you back ultimately to the practice of 'personal contacts'. Diplomacy and Making Friends then must be the skill required for sucessful modding? How very... Molchalin.

No, it's quite possible to mod successfully without talking to others about it. Weimer illustrates this. I don't believe it's neccessarily the most effective way though, especially where crossover between mods is concerned.

[Domi]

No, it's quite possible to mod successfully without talking to others about it. Weimer illustrates this. I don't believe it's neccessarily the most effective way though, especially where crossover between mods is concerned.

 

We are talking mortals here, not gods

[Borsook]

Isn't it more like believing that respecting those people you interact with on a regular basis and are likely to play your mod, is more important than respecting those people you're going to speak to once or twice at best, and who are unlikely to ever play your mod?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't your will to mod somebody's mod a sign of respect? Seriously for so many years game makers were afraid of modders, now they've started to understand that the more people mod their game the better for them and it. Why so many modders believe otherwise about their creations?

[jcompton]

Isn't your will to mod somebody's mod a sign of respect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not necessarily. If someone publishes the "Kelsey Gets Beaten Up By Eight Year Old Girls (and Cries About It)" mod, that is probably not a sign of respect for the author or the work.

[Borsook]

Isn't your will to mod somebody's mod a sign of respect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not necessarily. If someone publishes the "Kelsey Gets Beaten Up By Eight Year Old Girls (and Cries About It)" mod, that is probably not a sign of respect for the author or the work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well yes, there are no general truths, obviously I meant serious mods only.

[NiGHTMARE]

It's also not very respectful to mod somebody's mod if you know that person doesn't want you to do it.

[Domi]

I still see a definitive distinction between modding a mod and referncing to it in your own mod.

[Princeps]

It's also not very respectful to mod somebody's mod if you know that person doesn't want you to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And one way to know that is if that person could state that in the readme, according to principles modders agree upon (which is why I made that suggestion a couple of pages back).

 

Actually, I think it would be better if people agreed on some common principles as Domi suggests (= if I make a mod I acknowledge that it is fair game to THIS degree), but will it be possible to make people agree where to draw the line?

 

Maybe JCompton's attitude is the most constructive in the long run - letting quality speak for itself?

[Domi]

In the long run, perhaps. I'm for starting small and making people to get used to the idea of leveling the field between the modded and BioWARE's NPCs.

 

I am also a believer in the idea that the cross-mod texts are better off co-authored.

[Borsook]

It's also not very respectful to mod somebody's mod if you know that person doesn't want you to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it respectful to mod somebody's game if the company that did it does not want you to mod it? Or is it very respectful towards the community to prohibit modding of "your" mod?

[NiGHTMARE]

Is it respectful to mod somebody's game if the company that did it does not want you to mod it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps you should go back and read my original post . Besides, if a company really didn't want people to mod its games, they'd send out threatening "cease and desist" legal letters to those people who do.

 

Or is it very respectful towards the community to prohibit modding of "your" mod?

 

I don't see how it's not. It's not as if modders owe the rest of the community anything.