High Fantasy or Hedge Fantasy?

[Culain Mainframe]

What Hedge has to offer: the characters who are not archetypes, fresh plots, plots that actually make sense, the freedom of a setting, and the freedom from the Ancient Evil that is stirring after 99,999 years of being imprisoned by those other good guys

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Well, Martin does have a great ancient evil comming up again, but I don't mind that. I can't wait what can't of twist he will give to this cliche.

 

I loathe that guy. David Gemmell uses him in every book.

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I do like Davids Gemmells take on the king Arthur legend, very nice.

[Domi]

I am less than 300 pages from the end of the Kinfe of Dreams. Jordan had done it in this book - I now officially can't stand any of the principal characters, with Perrin and Faile losing their 'protected' status. Some readers commented thatthis book is better than the previous, but to mee it reads just the same. The "OMG! We must clean the Source!", "OMG, someone had channeled tons of Source!" and now it is: "OMG! we must all ride to Tarmon Gaidon!"

[neriana]

I like well-written, well-imagined, with hope and without ridiculous amounts of violence. 1000-page books with 15 books per cycle do not interest me. Mere soap-opera filler.

 

In other words: either "high" or "hedge" is good for me, but I hate Martin passionately. As for Jordan, forget it, never even tried after seeing an excerpt on the internet. Pratchett's a lot of fun.

 

Patricia McKillip and Robin McKinley are the best writers in fantasy today, in my not-humble opinion. Pamela Dean is also great, but she puts out books very rarely. Most truly good authors don't churn, of course.

[Domi]

I'll try those two after I am done with the Feast. Unless I get sidetracked into another Kay's deludge. What would you recommend to start with?

[Borsook]

What Hedge has to offer: the characters who are not archetypes, fresh plots, plots that actually make sense, the freedom of a setting, and the freedom from the Ancient Evil that is stirring after 99,999 years of being imprisoned by those other good guys

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You're being a bit unfair, high fantasy can have a decent plot.

Coming back to the question my answer is: dark fantasy.

[Domi]

Nah, they always try to save one world or another by either finding, destroying or preserving an ancient device or a dozen of them....

[Borsook]

Nah, they always try to save one world or another by either finding, destroying or preserving an ancient device or a dozen of them....

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Hmm isn't Conan high fantasy? Or does he bear a different label?

[BigRob]

I think Conan would be more Hedge Fantasy. Magic is there, but is relatively rare and understated. Actually, magic was quite understated in Lord of the Rings too, for the most part (no fireballs for Gandalf!)

 

 

My favourite fantasy author is Terry Pratchett, and seeing as his novels are generally a mixture of hedge and high (the plot usually resolves around some relatively epic event, but the story focuses on relationships, politics, and people just trying to deal with what's going on around them), I'll have to go with both/neither .

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But definately agreed. I'll read both and love it, as long as its done well. Vive Terry!

[neriana]

I'll try those two after I am done with the Feast. Unless I get sidetracked into another Kay's deludge. What would you recommend to start with?

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Well, hm. I'm a tad confused about your "high" and "hedge" fantasy differentiations, so let's see.

 

For Patricia McKillip, I usually recommend The Riddlemaster Trilogy to start. However -- there's an ancient enemy there. It's significantly more complex than Tolkein or virtually any other fantasy of the type, and has very in-depth characterization, but if you want to steer away from that kind of thing, any of her one-shot books are good. Her most personal, farthest away from "saving the world", would probably be In the Forests of Serre or Winter Rose -- that I've read, that is. I still haven't gotten Od Magic .

 

For Robin McKinley, I generally recommend Hero and the Crown as the best to start with. But again, if you want to steer away from anything hinting of saving of the world, try Rose Daughter. It's a retelling of Beauty and the Beast. Or Outlaws of Sherwood, a retelling of Robin Hood.

 

With both authors, you can read any of their books in any order, except The Riddlemaster Trilogy, because they are all completely separate stories. Robin McKinley often sets stories in Damar, but her Damar changes according to what she needs it to do at the time. No octogies here (if that's a word).

 

My favorite fantasy authors use fairy and folk tales as inspiration far more than Tolkein .

[Borsook]

My favorite fantasy authors use fairy and folk tales as inspiration far more than Tolkein .

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Which is kind of funny taking into account how much was Tolkien's writting influenced by folk tradition (though not the English one)

 

Speaking about recommendations if I assume correctly that they fall under the hedge label (I hate labels in literature/music) then anything by Zelazny or Gaiman...

[Domi]

Well, hm. I'm a tad confused about your "high" and "hedge" fantasy differentiations, so let's see.

 

They are intuitive rather than ridge definitions. Patricia McKillip sounds a bit more interesting from your descriptions I'll clip it ion my list of the books to check out.

 

Actually, I do read and can enjoy the 'save the world' plots, but rarely. Fionavar and Memory/Sorrow/Thorn are that type.

[Evaine Dian]

I prefer (semi-) historical settings where magic doesn't exist or is something very special.

 

A very good example of Hedge Fantasy is the World of DSA (Das schwarze Auge). I don't know much about the PnP game, just that it's quite popular here, but I read a couple of novels. Some were rather crappy, others were good, one was extraordinarily good. It's called Das Jahr des Greifen (~ The Year of the Griffin, NOT the one by Diana Wynne Jones; I think there's no English version of the one I mean...).

It reminds me a little of LOTR, as it's about a town of humans which is besieged by orcs, but the characters are far more fleshed out than the ones in LOTR, even if they only have very small parts, they don't lack a proper personality, and they are not just good or bad, but have many different shades of grey. I also think that the plot was not an average fantasy story, but is quite unique, there's no real "hero" who has to save the world from the ultimate evil. I thought it had a very cool atmosphere.

[Domi]

For Patricia McKillip, I usually recommend The Riddlemaster Trilogy to start. However -- there's an ancient enemy there. It's significantly more complex than Tolkein or virtually any other fantasy of the type, and has very in-depth characterization, but if you want to steer away from that kind of thing, any of her one-shot books are good. Her most personal, farthest away from "saving the world", would probably be In the Forests of Serre or Winter Rose -- that I've read, that is. I still haven't gotten Od Magic .

 

Well, I've started the Ombria in Shadow, simply because that was one of the two books on the shelf in the library. It is a contrast after Feast for Crows. I like the 'chamber music' feel of it, but it was not as impactual for me as Martin and Kay were from the very first pages.

[neriana]

For Patricia McKillip, I usually recommend The Riddlemaster Trilogy to start. However -- there's an ancient enemy there. It's significantly more complex than Tolkein or virtually any other fantasy of the type, and has very in-depth characterization, but if you want to steer away from that kind of thing, any of her one-shot books are good. Her most personal, farthest away from "saving the world", would probably be In the Forests of Serre or Winter Rose -- that I've read, that is. I still haven't gotten Od Magic .

 

Well, I've started the Ombria in Shadow, simply because that was one of the two books on the shelf in the library. It is a contrast after Feast for Crows. I like the 'chamber music' feel of it, but it was not as impactual for me as Martin and Kay were from the very first pages.

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Well, McKillip is one of those writers who sneaks up on you. She doesn't hit you in the gut, which is the feeling I get after reading Martin and, in certain works, Kay. She's more seductive. I find her stories stick with me MUCH more than either of those writers, with her intricate, musical writing, likeable characters, and dream-like settings. The only Kay work I really like is Tintagel. I don't like works, of literature, art, movies, etc., that grab you by the throat. I love works that show you something subtle that you keep coming back to, finding something new in them every time.

[Domi]

I finished Ombria. Thank you for pointing her out.

 

I have to say that it was a lovely reading, but the ending was so smudged, that I could not tie in a few of the knots, and that usually irritates me (I know many people like the open endings). But glorious otherwise! She is also so utterly fairy-tale... I think while I enjoy it, I still prefer the historico-fantastical. I put the Riddlemaster on my reading list for later, since it seems to be her most acclaimed series.

 

I am starting Kerr now. If I like it, it's big series, if not I will pick up Kay's Sarantine

 

Yakes, I have so much to read, I don't know where I'll get the time...