High Fantasy or Hedge Fantasy?

[neriana]

Ombria's ending is very open, and I love it, but all of her books aren't like that. Books she has with clear endings include Atrix Wolfe, Song for the Basilisk, Alphabet of Thorn, and In the Forests of Serre. Ombria probably has the most "smudged" ending of any of her books; maybe that's why I love it so much .

[Domi]

Well, there are open endings, and there are open endings. I don't mind it when I don't know what will happen to the characters in the future. I mind it, when I am left with only a faint idea of what in the Nine Hells had happened in the book. And Ombria had too many confusing things left unsolved: who again was Mag? Was she Ducon's daughter, sister, or niece? What was Domina and what did she want in the end? Did they forgot or remember what had happened?

[neriana]

Well, there are open endings, and there are open endings. I don't mind it when I don't know what will happen to the characters in the future. I mind it, when I am left with only a faint idea of what in the Nine Hells had happened in the book. And Ombria had too many confusing things left unsolved: who again was Mag? Was she Ducon's daughter, sister, or niece? What was Domina and what did she want in the end? Did they forgot or remember what had happened?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love that these things are all left open.

 

SPOILERS

 

Mag may be related to Ducan, but how is unclear. Her mother came from the other side, while his father did. The implication is that there are quite a few people in the city with parents from the other side. They may just have a shared heritage, not a shared immediate family.

 

Domina was an evil witch who had been trying to take over Ombria for generations. Her origins, original motivations, etc., are unknown. None of the protaganists know them, so neither do we.

 

And everyone but Mag and her guardian forgot what happened, though they probably have some kind of subconscious remembrance, as of a dream. Whether her guardian will forget again, now that she has discovered she loves Mag and therefore now has more than academic interest in events, is an interesting question.

[Guest Guest_Idobek_*]

But I worship reading the books of Martin and Steven Erikson, I truly love their work.

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Steven Erikson doesn't get nearly enough press. If anyone here hasn't read any of the tales from the Malazan Book of the Fallen you really should, I can't recommend them enough.

[Domi]

@Idobeck: Interestingly enough, it's the second time in the past month when I first see "It's a horrible, horrible author" thread, and in a little while: "I really like this author" thread. The other guy was the author of the Chronicles of Covenant or something like that

 

@Neriana

 

Oh, yes, I sort of concluded something similar, but you see:

 

Mag may be related to Ducan, but how is unclear. Her mother came from the other side, while his father did. The implication is that there are quite a few people in the city with parents from the other side. They may just have a shared heritage, not a shared immediate family.

 

Just how their parents meet and breed is left to anybody's guess. I was left with the image of the people from 'real' Ombria sitting by the portals and waiting for their fated choices. It was so comic that it destoyed to a degree the romantico-shadowy aspect.

 

Domina was an evil witch who had been trying to take over Ombria for generations. Her origins, original motivations, etc., are unknown. None of the protaganists know them, so neither do we.

 

Well, we are told that she is some sort of mold on house Greves, and that in her genocidal drive she wants to bring about the transition, and survive that transition with the memory of the event. The *why* remains unknown though, and that beggs the question: Does the author know herself? Imo, the author always has to know the motivations/backgrounds of his/her characters to create a believable scenario. Ultimately, everyone can opt out for the "because the Villian then will RULE Z WORLD or BECOME IMMORTAL or WILL HAVE THE ONE TRUE POWREZ!" but I was left dissatisfied with not knowing Domina's motives.

[neriana]

@Neriana

 

Oh, yes, I sort of concluded something similar, but you see:

 

Mag may be related to Ducan, but how is unclear. Her mother came from the other side, while his father did. The implication is that there are quite a few people in the city with parents from the other side. They may just have a shared heritage, not a shared immediate family.

 

Just how their parents meet and breed is left to anybody's guess. I was left with the image of the people from 'real' Ombria sitting by the portals and waiting for their fated choices. It was so comic that it destoyed to a degree the romantico-shadowy aspect.

No, not at all. The parents from the other side (one is as real as another) wanted to explore this side. They happened to meet someone here and have children with them. There's no sitting around, just something that happens all the time when people from different societies interact.

 

Domina was an evil witch who had been trying to take over Ombria for generations. Her origins, original motivations, etc., are unknown. None of the protaganists know them, so neither do we.

 

Well, we are told that she is some sort of mold on house Greves, and that in her genocidal drive she wants to bring about the transition, and survive that transition with the memory of the event. The *why* remains unknown though, and that beggs the question: Does the author know herself? Imo, the author always has to know the motivations/backgrounds of his/her characters to create a believable scenario. Ultimately, everyone can opt out for the "because the Villian then will RULE Z WORLD or BECOME IMMORTAL or WILL HAVE THE ONE TRUE POWREZ!" but I was left dissatisfied with not knowing Domina's motives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Domina is not genocidal, at all. She's murderous, greedy, and uncaring, but she's not out to kill whole groups of people. She has BECOME fungal in her quest for immortality, which is really a quest to stay around for the flip. There is no question in my mind that McKillip knows exactly what's going on here, but she's a good enough author that she can stand back and let us draw our own conclusions. We don't get to see Domina creating herself, because it's already happened at the time of the book. Thank the gods, because I hate hate hate series based on the same characters that extend past 3 books. I don't care what these people had for lunch.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree, because many of the things I adore about McKillip are things that seem to bother you. Not surprising, since I hate George R.R. Martin with a passion.

[Domi]

Well, I don't really hate McKillip, or very bothered by her. She is a fine author, she just does not captivate me the way Martin or Kay do.

[Pekka]

I haven't read Ombria or any other books by McKillip, except the Riddlemaster trilogy, which I liked very much and can recommend to everyone who enjoys reading fantasy.

 

Martin seems good at dividing opinions. In my opinion, there's nothing better than a writer who is able to evoke strong feelings in his readers! I have yet to read any of his works, though I've been planning to do so for quite a while now. If there was a nice little boxed set available, I'd purchase it immediately, but unfortunately I haven't yet come across with anything like that.

 

Speaking of dividing opinions, Domi mentioned the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, written by Stephen Donaldson. This is one of the best fantasy series I've ever read. Donaldson is a masterful writer - rarely have I read about such interesting places and vividly described characters as in his books. The Chronicles are an interesting mixture of high and hedge fantasy elements, with plenty of nasty events that are guaranteed to satisfy the curiosity of readers who prefer more 'adult' fantasy instead of Harry Potter or Narnia or whatever. The protagonist, Thomas Covenant, is a leper, which leads to all kinds of strange situations.

 

Like Martin, Donaldson has both fanatic fans and equally fanatic faultfinders. The mark of true genius, I'd say. Since I'm not a big fan of fanaticism of any kind, I just like his books.

[Guest Guest]

Also steampunk is one of my fav settings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I find myself falling in love with Jester more and more each day.