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The Original Viconia Relationship thread...

Grim Squeaker

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I don't. I still don't belive that it's a necessary mod, or a mod that is supported by anything in the game, but I definitely don't hate it.


Mods, by their nature, change things (I used to be pretty sure that "mod" was short for "modification", but I've seen lots of people use "module" as the long form, so I'm not going to use that as an argument. Oh wait, I already did... just regard this as a perenthesis. Oh, wait, it already is :D ), and I don't see why "Viconia is bisexual" would be a bigger or more unacceptable change than, say, "Delainy returns in BG2" (to take a completely random example...).


I don't believe Viconia is bisexual in the original game, but if Zandilar decides to actually make the mod, she will be in the mod, and that will be good enough for me. After all, if all mod makers would have to begin by convincing everybody that their character interpretation is somehow supported by the original content of the game, the modding community would be more occupied with squabbling than with modding. Oh, wait, it already is... :D


(sorry, Sav, I didn't mean to pick on you. I just made the mistake of visiting some of the bigger forums before I came here)

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Well I've always been saying that they could make the mod of Viconia being bisexual, hell I'm not stopping them. I was just expressing an opinion (strongly) in hopes that they might see my side of things and not do it. Urgh, I hate justifying myself.


I just feel it would be better without a Viconia being bisexual part. IF Viconia had shown any interest in women in the game then I wouldn't mind this mod, but she doesn't (to my great memory that is), so it just doesn't seem right to me. I'd be fine if the PC could say she likes Viconia in That Way, just Viconia shouldn't return any feelings. She does flirt with/lead on Anomen in the game, but no other women. I think it'd really be best to just add another Drow to the party. People just seem to want her to romance her because it is HER (and her portrait is the prettiest), and she's a Drow, so she MUST have no qualms about doing women as well.. and it's frankly a bad way of thinking (IMO yet again).


Do what you want though, it's not like I have to download it (said with affection).


Disclaimer: So, yeah, I meant no OFFENSE in this post.


Edit: This belief also stems from the fact that I think the Bioware romances shouldn't be tampered with. I really dislike it when someone makes an NPC have a fling or something with Aerie, Jahiera, Viconia and.. yeah even Anomen. I don't like the HD-Aerie romance but I can put up with it because Bioware made it that way.

I always thought that the PC was the only one they would be interested in, out of all the NPCs in the game, as he/she is the one who has a profound effect on them through the game. It's like the Halflings At Large mod. I liked it, but then I found they were/are planning on having the female Halfling have a mini-romance with Jahiera, Jahiera!! who I think is DEFINITELY not bisexual. Err, but I think I made my other point.


Oh, and I don't mean to come accross as homophobic or anything, because I'm not.

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The one thing I am seriosuly against is the addition of another drow NPC to the game. As it stands you can have 1/3 of your party being exiled drow and then in Chapter 6 encounter another one. It's just getting ridiculous!


On the whole 'Viconia doesn't give any hint that she might be bisexual' thing: It's true that other than a line in ToB saying that drow are 'always eager to broaden' their experiences (which I know doesn't necesserily mean that and you have to be thinking about it to make it an implication) then she doesn't give any hint. However as Zandilar pointed out, Black Isle were very picky about what they wanted to do with any sexual content and I imagine wanted to avoid any problems with openly gay characters in a teenage game and dealing with 'my son/daughter has been getting ideas from this game' complaints. It was probably an easy way out for them. Star Trek has also avoided gay characters entirely for however long its been running. But anyway this is going off on a tangent.


I'm agreeing with JPS in saying that the canon Viconia is not bisexual but this mod version would be. One last point, take a look at the canon Solaufein and the Weimer version of Solaufein. That's quite a difference isn't it?

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That broadening experiences thing is when she asks Sarevok to sleep with her isn't it? I think she's just thinking of an excuse to sleep with him, being that he's not even alive or dead, but she's attracted to him anyway.

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Hey. Just moved over from TeamBG to follow up on this discussion... First of all, Say, despite what you've said, you seem to be trying pretty hard to persuade Grim/whomever to not follow through with this idea. IMHO, anyway. I mean, you might be against it -

I just feel it would be better without a Viconia being bisexual part. IF Viconia had shown any interest in women in the game then I wouldn't mind this mod, but she doesn't 
- but like you said, if someone makes a Viconia lesbian/bisexual romance mod, they're not going to force you to play it. I'm not attacking you or anything, I just wondered why you've made so many posts on the topic of a mod it seems you have no interest in playing.

Anyway, if anyone wants to actually make this mod, I'm willing to contribute as needed. I can write the dialogue (hopefully it'll seem authentic... I'm partway through my own fantasy novel, and I'm taking an English degree atm. Tho I'm not a lesbian, so Zandilar still has the advantage :D), and come up w/ some original music (Speaking of which, everyone, download Lord M's Im Romance soundtrack on the TeamBG forums... it's really good.). But my coding/scripting skills are almost nonexistent, so I couldn't do anything in that area. Either way, good luck to anyone willing to try to make this.


Edit: Said something to Say before realising he'd already said it himself... I really should read other people's posts properly :D

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You spelt my name wrong, grr.


they're not going to force you to play it, are they?


I've even said that numerous times, and the reason I'm trying so hard to persuade Grim Squeaker to NOT do a bisexual Viconia romance is because I really, really, really do think it is a bad idea. A woman friendship is good, but a relationship/romance, I really don't think so. The thing with Sarevok above just reinforces my view that Viconia is into strong males. She never once flirts with women, but flirts with Anomen and Sarevok, not to mention the Romance. The only possible reason she MIGHT be bisexual is the Drow culture, and Viconia doesn't really LIKE Drow culture much anyway, I found that out by someone posting something I think David Gaider said (ironically I wouldn't have found it if Grim Squeaker didn't bump that thread).


I just can't see how you can think she would be interested in a woman.

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Lol. Check above, I just noticed you'd already said that thing. Sorry about misspelling your name, it's hard to tell at first glance.

About being attracted to women... I think one of the main reasons people assume Viconia would be "up for it" with a female is because as a character, she doesn't seem to always associate sex with attraction. For example, the line about pleasuring the fat Calishman trader, or whatever... she obviously doesn't make him sound very attractive - but she's still getting pleasured, right? Or at least provided with something she wants. And Viconia is portrayed as very sexual; you've seen all the flirty comments she makes. So maybe people are thinking that if a female PC offers physical pleasure to Viconia, why wouldn't she accept? She accepted the deal with that Calimshite trader, after all.

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Really? It seems to me that when she was flirting with Anomen she was doing it in maybe hopes of getting a quicky, and Anomen WAS willing. If it was not for the PC's interference they may have had sex or done something erotic. She flirted with Sarevok because she wanted to 'test' him out, so to speak. About that Calimshite trader, she may have seemed to accept, but I would really think she'd be leading him on, she is like that after all. You should know if you've played her romance. You'll have to tell me whereabouts it happens though, I can't remember any Cailmshite traders in the game.


I just looked, and I think you mean her story of when she escaped the Underdark, right? Well, really, I reckon it was because had she gone somewhere else she would've most likely been hunted. She was using her knowledge of the erotic to survive in the surface. She says that the fat guy was her pawn and the carriage went where she wanted it to, so basically she was manipulating him. I doubt she felt any attraction. She likes strong males remember? And I emphasise this all the time, because it's the way she is.


Edit: I haven't played Solaufein, but I hear the romance is bisexual, but it's the same for women as it is for men. I suppose I can understand that he may like men as well. After what happened with Phaere he didn't seem too willing to be with a woman. I think he says something to a woman in the Underdark, along the lines of "Go away, you are all the same." so maybe he's more gay than bisexual? Really I don't know, I'd have to play the mod to have an opinion on it.


Another edit: Oh, if you do decide to change your mind and make your own Drow, I can provide portraits. I have about 15 or so female Drow portraits in my BG2 folder that I've collected from random sites. I had one as my avatar in FWS for a while before changing it back to the Horned Reaper. I'd be willing to aswell, since I disagree with the whole Viconia=Bisexual concept.

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The Calimshite trader was someone Viconia seduced in order to get her way:


A group of goln -you call them goblins- tried to seal my fate, but a human merchant came in his caravan, and his guards scattered them.


From a distance he had thought me a surface elf.  Surprisingly, when he learned I was Drow he offered shelter.  It was a sanctuary while I learned the human tongue.


He was Calimshite, I believe.  They are fond of slaves.  The price for my safety was the favors I bestowed...erotic arts that the Drow have honed for an eon.


Does it amuse you that I had to run my dark hands along his sweaty folds and tickle him artfully with my tongue; that he exerted himself wildly as I passionately bit his shoulder?


That's horrible...I can't believe he made you do those things.


Actually, I rather enjoyed it: he was quickly my pawn, and the caravan went as I wished.  Alas, his heart gave out one night...the guards thought it murder and chased me away.


Oh, do not look at me in such a manner.  Does your manhood wilt from talk of using Drow knowledge of the erotic to survive in your world?  Is it so terrible?


Not at all.


Good, I am pleased you have some sense... or is it that you wish to partake of the same pleasures?  Is that what I see?  (chuckle)  Perhaps another time, jaluk...


Oh on the Solaufein thing: Yes he is bisexual in the mod. However he is basically a completely different character to in the game. He is a lover of poetry and philosophy etc, something which I'd never of guessed the canon character would be interested in. My point is that Weimer modified the character to add new characters traits and many people love it.


On the whole new drow thing: I seriously doubt my mind will be changed on this point. Also, I don't want to make a bisexual drow for the sake of making a bisexual drow, I want to add a new side to the Viconia character as she is a very colourful character and the male romance is one of the most interesting. A female romance would play completely differently and would be quite appealing to quite a few people.

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Yes, but he added that to a character that didn't have THAT much development anyway. From the Underdark we could gather that he used to be in a relationship with Phaere, and worships Ellistrae (sp?). She's a Drow goddess of beauty, love and all that, right? Are his poems on subjects of love, etc? If so then it's understandable, as being a worshipper of Ellistrae, he'd have to believe in beauty and love. But also, Ust Natha is a Lolth-worshipping city. He has to disguise the fact that he's worshipping Ellistrae, which is why you might be surprised when he shows his true self.


Edit: You don't necessarily have to dismiss the 'picking up another Drow' bit. Maybe you could meet her in the Female Fighter's Society or something, and she challenges you to a duel, saying you look strong, maybe. When you beat her she'll surrender and say she likes how strong you are. The new part of the relationship could happen after each of Solaufein's quests. "I heard how you dealt with blah blah. You ARE very strong" that sort of thing.

When your deception is revealed and you're fighting through the Drows in Ust Natha, she comes out of the fighters society, asks if you are Veldrin, and you can say "No, I'm CHARNAME, I dunno who this Veldrin is." or "Yes, I was disguised as a Drow." then maybe she'd ask to come with you, seeing how strong you are etc, and she fancied you when you were Drow, she's never had a [RACE] lover before or something. Then work your way from there.


Heh, well anyway, that's just a rough idea, which deserves some consideration. It's more believable if it's a new character that's bisexual rather than changing someone from being straight to being bisexual.

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I've been reading these last few posts with some amusement. Homosexual relationships do exist in Faerun, they're just not talked about, much the way our society was.


As for Viconia being bi-sexual, I think that it's possible. I'm just playing through her romance for the first time and the impression I get is that she thinks she couldn't or doesn't want ANY type of serious relationship with ANYBODY - male or female it doesn't matter. So I think a female PC would have just as much a chance with Viconia as a male PC.


@Sav: I don't understand why you're making such a fuss over this. As you've stated several times, you don't have to even download it. As for why to even consider making this mod, any mod adds interest to a game we love, but is not going to have any additions to it. These mods keep the game interesting by adding new content. No one is going to force you to play this just like any other aspect of the game, even the original content.

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well, I'll be blunt and quick ('cause I'm pissed) Go away Sav! :D


when I calm down, and feel I have a bit more time, I'll explain why I think this is a good idea. (and why Sav's full of shit :D )


Grim: where have I seen that (the original) post before? (and have you seen Jessayla at all?)

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Grim: where have I seen that post before?  (and have you seen Jessayla at all?)

I may have copy and pasted it straight from FWP... :D (being the lazy creature that I am).


Jess is currently AWOL. She was working on a project here and then disappeared without a trace. Which is a shame...

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Oh great, this is too good. Everyone's against me it seems... *sigh*


I don't see why you're making a fuss over why I'm making a fuss of it too. I'm making a fuss over it because Grim Squeaker asked for peoples' opinions, and every time someone says 'Why shouldn't Viconia be bisexual?' I keep giving reasons.


I've seen no reason for her to be Bisexual, so this mod idea is questionable, and that's why I am arguing with the people who think she should be. As I said, Never flirts with women; Flirts with Ano and Sarevok; romances male PC, expresses love of strong males. I'm just expressing my opinion remember, a strong opinion at that. So there. All the inspiration for this came from something someone put in their mod, and in my opinion the Imoen romance isn't THAT great as the people over there think. I'm sure that if that didn't exist then you wouldn't think Viccy is interested in women as well as men at all. People have tried to tell me why they think she's Bi, but I frankly think that's wishful thinking on their part.


Oh and I'm full of shit, eh? Quite a strong reaction considering I've only been expressing my opinion. I've seen your posts anyway Cybersquirt, you'd probably prefer everyone in BG to be bisexual.


Do what you want, Grim. I'm just the minority. I'm like the only one who opposes the idea. But, like I said, new Drow = THUMBS UP :D


If you can't respect my opinion as to discuss this like responsible adults, then why am I wasting my time?


Remember. I'm not homophobic, if you're planning on using that argument. I've seen Fan Fictions with Viconia being with a woman, and it quite frankly didn't work.

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