Huge & Giant Spider Natural Weapons

[Wounded_Lion]

The forthcoming Hivemaster kit includes a bugfix that may not be present in the BG2Fixpack (I did not notice this fix as I scanned the tp2). All spiders in Baldur's Gate II have natural weaponry of +1 enchantment except Huge and Giant Spiders. Huge Spiders have natural weaponry of +3 enchantment (wtf?), and Giant Spiders have non-magical natural weaponry (which is curious given that spiders both above and below on the 'spider totem' possess enchanted natural weapons). I set each of these items to +1 enchantment in the Hivemaster tp2 (which seems logical).

 

a Wounded Lion

 

COPY_EXISTING ~SPIDHU1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDGI1.ITM~ ~override~
WRITE_LONG 0x60 1

 

*edit: rendered code a teeny bit more efficient*

[CamDawg]

Since the magical/nonmagical flags are consistent with the assigned enchantment levels it would appear to be intentional.

[devSin]

Would we want to change the huge spider enchantment level? It seems odd, given that all other spiders have enchantment 1, but this has 3.

 

The only consequence of this is that some PC summons (and ToB Player1) might have natural immunity to +1 weapons or less, but the funky huge spider is going to be able to hit them, whereas the sword spider, phase spider, wraith spider, and vortex spider won't.

 

I really don't want to look at the CRE files to see if the huge spider really should be tougher, but it's something to consider if the huge spider is weaker than all but the giant spider.

[CamDawg]

True, huge spider enchantments should be toned down--huge and giant spiders are at the bottom of the spider difficulty food chain.

[Andyr]

I'd say make them all +1.

[Wounded_Lion]

Since the magical/nonmagical flags are consistent with the assigned enchantment levels it would appear to be intentional.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Intentional? Perhaps. Stupid? Most definitely. In need of fixing? Yes.

 

 

This is what I call the Spider Totem:

 

Huge Spider

Giant Spider

Sword Spider/Phase Spider

Wraith Spider/Vortex Spider

 

The Small Spider is difficult to classify (it is quite powerful, despite its name), so I've ignored it for now.

 

Seriously, Cam, does it make sense that the Huge Spider weapon has a higher enchantment level than every other spider in the game? Does it make sense that the Giant Spider weapon has no enchantment when it is higher on the totem? The answer to both questions is "no". The only way to argue against this (imo) is to claim (and prove) that I have improperly ordered the Spider Totem...

 

a W.L.

[CamDawg]

Personally, I don't see why any of them have natural attacks that are considered enchanted at all. But sure, I don't see why we can't make 'em all +1, given that dev intent appears to be... not paying attention. We also need to add the magical flag for spidgi1.itm.

[Andyr]

I think the rule about it is meant to reflect sheer force rather than any magic,; I think natural weapons count as enchanted in 3E too for the purposes of what you can hit, with a level depending on your hit dice.

[devSin]

I wouldn't touch the giant spider weapon. It doesn't have an enchantment; I think it's safest to guess that somebody was paying attention for that one. Huge > Giant

[Wounded_Lion]

I wouldn't touch the giant spider weapon. It doesn't have an enchantment; I think it's safest to guess that somebody was paying attention for that one. Huge > Giant

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe that you are mistaken, dear Sin. If I recall correctly, the Giant Spider has more hit points, does more base damage, and has a more lethal poison. So it is, indeed, higher on the Spider Totem than the Huge Spider.

 

a Wounded Lion

[Wounded_Lion]

Personally, I don't see why any of them have natural attacks that are considered enchanted at all. But sure, I don't see why we can't make 'em all +1, given that dev intent appears to be... not paying attention. We also need to add the magical flag for spidgi1.itm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Crazy developers. lol.

 

I know about the flag and change it in the Hivemaster tp2 file. I render all spider weapons +1 enchantment, assign a fang icon, name the weapon "Fang", and allow a strength bonus (the Hivemaster has several spider-forms for shapeshifing, and will have several more in the near future, so I had to "finish" these weapons because they were quite raw in the default installation). I wasn't sure whether or not you'd want these other changes in the fixpack, though.

 

COPY_EXISTING ~SPIDHU1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDGI1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDPH1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDSW1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDWR1.ITM~ ~override~
~SPIDVO01.ITM~ ~override~
SAY NAME1 ~Fang~
SAY NAME2 ~Fang~
READ_BYTE 0x18 "flag1"
READ_BYTE 0x1E "use1"
READ_BYTE 0x1F "use2"
READ_BYTE 0x20 "use3"
READ_BYTE 0x21 "use4"
WRITE_BYTE 0x18 ("%flag1%" BOR "0b01101000")
WRITE_BYTE 0x1E ("%use1%" BAND "0b00000000")
WRITE_BYTE 0x1F ("%use2%" BAND "0b00000000")
WRITE_BYTE 0x20 ("%use3%" BAND "0b00000000")
WRITE_BYTE 0x21 ("%use4%" BAND "0b00000000")
WRITE_ASCII 0x3A ~ISWOSPDR~
WRITE_LONG 0x60 1
WRITE_ASCII 0x76 ~ISWOSPDR~
WRITE_BYTE 0x98 1

[the bigg]

According to Pnp, creatures with 4 or less Hit Dices have non-enchanted weapons when it comes to 'hittable only by +1 or better', creatures with 4+1 up to 8+1 a +1 weapon, 8+2 to 12+2 a +2 weapon, etc.

 

But the +1,+2... thing doesn't exist in BGII, so it's up to you to decide a classification