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PS:T Mod for BGII


BR³

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I just thought I'd pop in and shout a big 'good luck with this!' because this sounds like a great idea.

 

I must admit to never actually playing Planescape: Torment, but it was one of those things I've always wanted to get around to- and hopefully, if this is completed, I'll at least have some of the story... :-)

 

So a big thumbs up and a wellwishing from me!

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many new people who have modding dreams such as yours get offended, and hostile when suggestions are made.
LOL, i know exactly what you mean. I know its not that similar a discussion topic, but i find the same thing happening in the car audio forums i haunt. Newbies, in my observation, dont actually normally WANT advice : they want affirmation that what they already beleive, is correct :)

 

I really AM appreciative of any help i can be given with this task, every little bit counts. I'm the type of guy who would rather plan everything out before diving in (hence the myriad inane questions, sorry :)), as from experience barging in without a plan usually ends badly. I am under no impression that my ability in this matter is miniscule compared to many on here, and the more i can benefit from their ability and knowledge, the easier my task will be. Perhaps its respect, perhaps its just sheer practicality - 'many hands make light work'.

 

Having said that, please dont expect ultra rapid progress on this project : I am determined to bring it to fruition, but i work at our car audio store 50+ hours a week and most of my spare time is taken up spending time with the wife or doing other things. But i'm also stubborn, so to paraphrase Jan Jansen : "It will be done with skill and care, if not brevity" :p

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Does anyone have any idea what sort of limits BG2 has on maximum number of creatures present in an area at one time? And also, maximum number of spell effects? Why i ask is, for one of the story sections i'm planning, i plan to create a battle from the Blood War using the Avernus location in Baator from PS:T, but i need to know what limit on numbers of Baatezu and Tanar'ri i have to deal with :)

 

I don't think there's any absolute cap although the game may start running slowly if there's lots of stuff going on. I am told this is the cause of the slowness Tutu players sometimes experience in the Gnoll Stronghold. If you were to put all the action in cutscenes it might help, since the game would only have the one cutscene script to play with as opposed to however many creature ones.

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Perhaps, for your new kit idea, you could summon your teeth weapon into the fist slot. That way, it doesn't show up in your inventory and scream "mod". The downside to this is that you need a script to re-summon the teeth every time you load a saved game. It isn't to hard to do. See the Arcane Rouge kit from the Sorcerers Plane Collection mod to see how its done. Good luck with your mod and I hope you go on to to great things.

Biubid_boy.

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For the record, i do understand the story of PS:T, but perhaps i view the game differently to most fans. The story of TNO's redemption etc, the main theme of the game, was never the facet that interested me most. I was much more interested in the NPC's and their stories, hence why i want to do this mod. I dont want to progress the story of TNO any more than it is : what i want to do, is provide some extended story, and perhaps some closure, for the NPC's, which as stated i found much more interesting.

 

Themes like :

• With the death of TNO, Dak'kons vows and bonds are broken... so what does he do with this newfound strength? Does he try and find normality? Does he use his newfound power to try and redeem himself for the loss of Shrakt'lor? etc?

• What the heck DID happen to Morte's body?

• Things like that :)

 

To be honest, as a PST fan I would prefer to leave PST story and NPCs untouched by modding. Nearly as JCompton said ;)

 

I think that PST story (or NPCs) is the best as it is. The fact that we do not know what happen with Morte's body or what each NPC is going to do after TNO "death" or anything unrevealed is exactly the point of PST story - we do not have to know *everything* and this makes the story special. Actually, in PST story we do not know what was the exact reason of first incarnation's desire to be immortal - just something he want to retrieve his mistakes... What mistakes we can speculate - or maybe we can put our moral views to the story. This was imho the goal of authors of PST - to make open story with open end... This can make the story and the all art piece (literature, movie,...) deep and special. They are many of unrevealed things in Twin Peaks series - but I don't actually want to know their "true", it is something what tease me and makes TP story great :p

 

Just my opinion... as we can see, many others welcome this idea :)

 

 

On a related, but different, issue : I'm trying to work out a story for Grace. Now, as i understand the Planescape setting, creatures like a Succubus, Solar, Astral Deva, etc, are creatures formed of pure beleif in a given ethos. For example, Succubi such as Grace are formed quite literally from the chaotic evil beleifs and tendancies of Primes.

 

Given that, would a creature created from beleif who then acts in a manner not consistant WITH that beleif, such as Grace or Trias, not undergo a change? Either to a state of simple non-existance, or to a relevant form that echoes their actions?

 

Outer planes are in relation with believes of Primes and Planars. It is something as feedback - Outer planes can be viewed as a source of principles and moral ideas (neutral law fro Mechanus, desperate evil from Pandemonium etc.), but on the other hand Outer planes receive back the "power" or the "stability" from the believes of beings in planes.

There are Powers (gods) - they have some influence to stability of Outer planes too.

There are petitioners - entities that arise on Outer planes from teh spirits of dead mortals from the Prime Material planes; mortal who acts as lawful evil will be probably petitioner on Baator.

And there are beings that have their connection with their plane - well-know baatezu with Baator, tanar'ri with Abyss, modrons with Mechanus, slaadi with Limbo etc. etc. They can have petitioners in their hordes but all of them are not petitioners - they originate "from" its plane - from the nature of its plane.

And they can "fall"... modrons can fall (we know Nordom from PST but there are many "renegates", modrons with deviations from the law... there are fallen archons (LG from Mt.Celestia) - archons who are not so lawful for Celestia lawful degree etc. etc.).

The creature doesn't have to change its "race"... it depends on the fabulation of the author ;) It can remains same (just with different "belief"), it can gets some new physical attributes, it can changes completely... there is no rule.

"Fallen" modron can look as normal modron with some oddities (painted colorful patterns on his body, for example), fallen archon can look as archon... or can be transformed into asuras - race of "chaotic" archons...

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To be honest, as a PST fan I would prefer to leave PST story and NPCs untouched by modding. Nearly as JCompton said :p
I understand your viewpoint completely, and as already stated i understand that some people may not wish to play a mod such as this for the reasons you've stated.

 

My personal justification for wanting to do this mod, is as follows : In my mind, PS:T is the story of the Nameless One. It follows his path, his choices, and a portion of his life story. It doesnt constitute the entirety of the experiences of his companions, any more than the experiences of the NPC's in BG2 constitute the entirety of what they did.

 

For instance, at the end of BG2, if you have Anomen in your group, you get a speil about how Anomen gave in to some doubts and went soul searching, before rising to prevent evil from transpiring in Maztica and forming a new order there. That simple 1 paragraph summation could be an entire new game, with a bit of fleshing out.

 

Now i know you dont get the same writeups at the end of PS:T, but what happens to the NPC's is left intentionally open by the designers. Now, you can take that one of two ways :

 

One, the story is left open on purpose because the designers didnt want to progress the story past that point, and wanted to 'leave it hanging'. This is a valid viewpoint, and the one you beleive in :)

 

Two, the story is left open because what happens after that point is 'a whole new story'. That is the beleif i am working under. I am not attempting to rewrite Planescape Torment as a game. What i am doing, is trying to create a 'whole new story' with the characters we know and love from the PST game, but in an entirely new situation and scenario, that provides a new take on what happens after the events in PS:T. Its not a continuation of PS:T, as much as a opportunity to flesh out the events in the lives of the relevant NPC's after PS:T ends :)

 

Again, i dont expect everyone to love the end result. But i suspect that enough will, to make it more than worthwhile ;)

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Opinion Time! :p

 

What are peoples thoughts on extra NPC's for this mod?

 

I am planning to have as many of the 'regular' NPC's from PS:T available (Dak'kon, Morte, etc) as i have time and the means to do, thats a given. But what are peoples thoughts on the mod providing entirely NEW characters, in the same style as the others in the Planescape setting used in PS:T?

 

For example, in addition to the standard 7 of Dak'kon, Morte, Vhailor, Annah, Fall From Grace, Ignus and Nordom, what are peoples thoughts on also having some similarly interesting and fleshed out NPC's based on such creatures as :

 

- An abishai, who starts off as a black abishai but, through the course of the adventure, can evolve to a green abishai or even a red abishai.

 

- An imp or quasit sorcerer.

 

- An outcast illithid mage.

 

...etc :) Any thoughts on these, or other suggestions, welcome :)

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To be honest, as a PST fan I would prefer to leave PST story and NPCs untouched by modding. Nearly as JCompton said wink.gif

 

I agree, which is why I won't be playing this mod. That doesn't stop me from saluting the modder with a job well done if he completes it, however :)

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I am assuming that the protagonist will not be TNO?

 

I can see three main obstacles, but since you are willling to put a lot of time and effort into that project before the inevitable HD crash:

 

-Your lack of voiced dialogue will be noticeable.

-Your writing has to be very good to incorporate so many NPCs into the new setting. (HaerD is a doomguard IIRC and I think that this does not really feature in his dialogue at all) Taking into account what choices the player may or may not have been making during PST is a demanding process and can invalidate many options to make them more than mere empty cameos. BG2 has too many of them already. *sigh* Alas poor Garrick, I knew him well.

-The question of a feasible starting level is hard enough for the core group. I would recommend to leave out the entire other bestiary for that reason.

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Opinion Time! :)

 

What are peoples thoughts on extra NPC's for this mod?

 

It might be better to have a new NPC and not old ones so you don't have to worry about keeping their story consistent with Ps:T, and it will silence some people wondering why Dak'Kon/TNO/whoever has crossed over to BG2.

 

My Eranon mod for Tutu in development here uses a plane-travelling character, but he is not affiliated with Ps:T at all.

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I am assuming that the protagonist will not be TNO?
No. I doubt TNO will even be mentioned once in the entire mod.

 

Your lack of voiced dialogue will be noticeable
Moreso than the Solaufein mod? That doesnt have any voiced dialogue, and i never found that distracting. To be honest, i found the primitively voiced dialogue present in TDD to be more unprofessional than a mod without voice at all. At the very least, i'll find a full suite of action/command comments :)

 

The other posts re this issue, i'll put to a vote to get a feel for what people want. See here : http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=5907

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