idea for paladin mod

[Lemernis]

I think that could be one satisfying way to work with the material.

 

I'm really just putting it out there for anyone with the modmaking skills to realize it, or integrate it into another already planned mod, whichever. I can write dialogue and quests, but that's about it. I'm not a scripter so I can't pursue it on my own.

 

If anyone wants to run with it feel free.

 

If any modders here would be interested in my developing the above story content further, i.e., particularly the backstory and personality of the Deathstalker cult leader, I'd be happy to contribute. That and delving a bit deeper into the substance of the basic story. I'd send a synposis of the story, and a storyboard style 'screenplay' as if it were for a movie. Just PM me and I'll send it.

[Lemernis]

jcompton beware, ToB spoilers below:

 

The chance of this mod ever being made is virtually nil, I realize. But having finally completed ToB for the first time just last week, some further musings on this proposed storyline:

 

First, I recall that in AD&D the equivalent of a "Blackguard" is called an "anti-paladin." (? I think that's it anway...) And if so, I would use that instead of the 3.0 ed. Blackguard. I.e., keep it within that AD&D system, and have the changes in the PC's Fallen paladin class conform to the 'anti-paladin' conventions.

 

But anyway, as to ToB's plotline... Heh, well can't hardly say I was shocked to find that Melissan is a Deathstalker herself!

 

The overall story does suffer somewhat from having two such villains manipulating the hero toward nearly the same end. Accordingly, the new proposed secondary villain needs to be rewritten to integrate better with Melissan's story.

 

I will say though that regardless, there's a tremendous difference in terms of gameplay: the Deathstalker posing as a Helmite high priest can lead the PC down a path to an alignment/class shift, and then all out evil. Or to Falling but then redeeming paladin status. From a gameplay perspective, that is worth it.

 

I assume that Melissan's story must remain unchanged...

 

Unfortunately, this new secondary villain's storyline works toward robbing the first time ToB player of the surprise when Melissan reveals herself at the very end.

 

I suppose this Helmite high priest of our PC's knightly order in this proposed mod shouldn't really be aware of Melissan either...

 

I guess one solution would be to add some additional dialogue to Melisaan at the very end, at the Throne of Bhaal. There Meilssan would divulge that she was perfectly aware of this additional new Bhaalspawn's activities. Melissan let this drama play out for two reasons: 1) it's simply one further instance of using the protagonist to unwittingly eliminate all of Melissan's competition, and 2) Melissan grasps that each of the protagonist's successive victories over the most powerful of all Bhaalspawn (i.e., "the Five" she assembled) simply increases the protagonist's power. Which in turn is just that much more power that Melissan may ultimately claim when she ultimately defeats the last standing Bhaalspawn. Melissan didn't count on this particular Bhaalspawn entering the mix, but it was not at all an unwelcome development.

 

Melissan could perhaps comment to the effect that she savors the irony of a rival Deathstalker operating with the same aims; and unwittingly, essentially both doing her (Melissan's) work for her, and utlimately fattening up the protagonist for her eventual slaughter. I think that would work.

 

Anyone playing such a mod has likely already played ToB. So it's not really spoiling much to have such a similar plot preceed the conclusion of Melissan's story.

 

And let's face it, the entire ToB storyline basically just serves as a contrivance to embark on the ultimate powergaming romp to begin with. (Enjoyable as a gaming experience as it is, it's a PGer's heaven--reaching level 40, +4, +5, and even +6 weapons and armor practically raining from the sky, etc. lol come on.)

[BigRob]

jcompton beware, ToB spoilers below:.....

 

First, I recall that in AD&D the equivalent of a "Blackguard" is called an "anti-paladin."  (?  I think that's it anway...)  And if so, I would use that instead of the 3.0 ed. Blackguard.  I.e., keep it within that AD&D system, and have the changes in the PC's Fallen paladin class conform to the 'anti-paladin' conventions. 

 

From memory, they did away with Anti-paladins for the most part in 2nd Edition, I believe only Githyanki kept the class for thier knights, so there might be little 2nd edition info to go on. 1st Edition stuff is pretty close though.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, this new secondary villain's storyline works toward robbing the first time ToB player of the surprise when Melissan reveals herself at the very end. 

It might just change the nature of it... double jeopardy so to speak. Plus, there can't be too many people around for whom the ending of ToB is a surprise anymore.

[Lemernis]

The best source I could find was this: http://www.coryj.net/CoreRule/ (great to have it all together like that) where the Complete Book of Paladins, Chapter 3 Ethos, Violations and Penalties mentions the anti-paladin--and how a paladin becomes one. This would be the indispensible source for such a mod. You could really go to town with it.

[NiGHTMARE]

Don't forget that not all paladins who fall automatically become evil. In fact, I strongly suspect that NG and LN former paladins would be considerably more common than any evil aligned former paladins.

[Lemernis]

Right, to become an anti-paladin is supposed to be unusual. But for the purposes of playing a mod making it available is something that would be very different.

[notasophist]

is this idea intended for paladins only, or for all classes?

 

Since I'm attempting to build Barakmordin for TOB, I could see your quest taking place there. (No, I will not build the mod for you, I'm too busy building Barakmordin to begin with )

[Lemernis]

Lol! I lack the coding skills, or I might give it a go myself. I could only contribute by writing dialgoue, 'storyboarding' it, and so forth.

 

I don't expect it to ever be built, it's way too much work--especially for the entire game series. But I do believe it would be one of the most intriguing 'roleplaying' experiences there could be for a BG mod.

 

As I'm envisioning it, it's a mod designed specifically for the paladin class. And specifically a paladin of Helm. (Well, most likely Helm--assuming that the arch villain is written as the head of a church, Helm is probably the best faith for that in the BG series.)

 

It's a mod that really does the paladin thing to the tee with the ethos violations. The above cited source is a superb reference for all manner of little quests that can challenge the paladin with moral dilemmas that will pose true roleplaying choices. Often he'll have to act against his ethos in order to accomplish what he believes to be a morally Good final outcome.

 

The paladin may avoid Falling, though this might well be a razor's edge path.

 

But if the paladin suffers too many violations he will Fall. The mod is really designed to make him Fall. If he Falls he can either a) remain Fallen and continue as a Fighter, b) try to redeem himself and regain his Paladin status, c) descend further into Evil and become an anti-paladin, where Evil acts are rewarded.

 

I've never played Evil in ToB, and I don't know if evil behavior gets rewarded in any way if one does. For example, I'm not sure what could be done to edit the challenge against the Ravager. After becoming an anti-paladin, ideally, after defeating the arch villain (the Deathstalker posing as the high priest of a Helmite temple) the PC's Slayer should be able to be the more potent Ravager. And in the final pocket plane challenge, the PC could battle an avatar of Gorion--representing whatever Good that's left in him that has rallied to try win the soul back. If that's scriptable, that is.

 

Anyway, like I said, an undertaking like this is just too immense. I'm basically just sharing a longwinded daydream about it.