Irenicus's Dungeon - NPC choice

[Guest morthond]

In Irenicus's dungeon, you can rescue Minsc and Jaheira. The gamemakers made the assumption that Minsc-Dynaheir and Jaheira-Khalid were the characters most likely for the player to complete the game with.

I'm playing BG1-tutu at the moment, some of which (Kivan[G3] and Xan[PP]) have been modded into BG2.

Having test-played a multiplayer game, I found out that it inserts the characters into the numerous cages in the dungeon startpoint. For the best continuity, I'd like to have a choice of which NPCs are in the cages. I have NEVER completed either BG1 or BG2 with Minsc and Jaheira in the party, so it irks me that I'm supposed to have travelled the Sword Coast with people that my PC, in reality, barely spoke to.

I haven't really said this coherently so: the idea is for a mod that lets you choose which characters are inside the cages at the start. This would allow them to travel with you through the dungeon, improve bg1-bg2 continuity and mean no-one would have to sit through Jaheira telling you about loads of stuff that never happened.

 

I'm no modder, but is this a realistic proposal, in terms of modability? And if so, would I be the only one who cares, or do other people agree?

[jester]

Well, you can get Kivan immediately after you have left the dungeon IIRC. I am not sure where Xan starts.

[Guest Guest]

Yeah, I'm aware of it.

[Domi]

It is too much work to support a project like this - the problem is that you need to supply character development for all BG1NPC throughout BG2SoA-ToB among each-other and with the new NPCs, with PC, scenery dialogue, etc. A good, solid SoA-ToB NPC takes at least 6 months to develop. AT LEAST. If Kulyok is doing it. In addition you need to deal with the existing game references to Imoen, Khalid and Dynaheir. You have to rewrite Jaheira's and Minsc banter for Khalid and Dynaheir not dead. You have to redo the Easter eggs with all BG1NPC in BG2 already (Coran, Safana, Garrick, Faldorn, Tiax, Quayle, etc). In other words, it is a project higher in complexity than BG1NPC proper, and BG1NPC proper took some 3-4 years and 60+ people work.

 

Anyone is obviously welcome to doing it half-ass, populating BG2 with mules, and leaving unresolved issues, but I doubt that will be something tangibly better than the existing botched job.

 

For me, the more realistic and better way in dealing with transition is to bite the bullet and cut out all "transferred" BG1NPCs, including Imoen, replacing all of them with the new ones, maybe even the existing modded ones.

[DavidW]

But don't you (i.e. Morthond) mean something much smaller? i.e.

 

1) remove Jaheira and/or Minsc entirely from the game (since their only justification for being in Amn is having been kidnapped with you).

2) copy those BG1 NPCs which already exist as mods in BG2 (Kivan and Xan?) into the cages

 

That sounds fairly manageable... you might have to amend little bits of the Kivan and Xan mods, depending on what assumptions they currently build in. I'd have thought it works most naturally as a component of those mods if the author(s) are interested.

(Imoen is another matter, given how central she is to the plot.)

[WizWom]

Actually, it looks like BGT alrady does this - the party you had at the end of Baldur's Gate is with you in Baldur's Gate 2 - and it has special code if you had Jahiera/Khalid or Mincs/Dynaheir with you, I guess - or any other NPC who appears later, I would assume.

[CamDawg]

1) remove Jaheira and/or Minsc entirely from the game (since their only justification for being in Amn is having been kidnapped with you).

I don't even think you have to remove Minsc and Jaheira--just add the NPC to one of the empty cages. Might need to do a check to make sure it's not filled by a player-created character in a multi-player game, but I think that's about it.

 

2) copy those BG1 NPCs which already exist as mods in BG2 (Kivan and Xan?) into the cages

Easy enough, mainly because the extra banters and alternative starting locations would have to be coded by the authors and not me.

 

I think this is a nifty idea. An option to have Xan and Kivan (or other ported BG characters) start in the cages as an option during install would be quite nifty.

[jester]

I already see my virtue going through the floor with so many NPCs to leave behind in the cages.

[Kulyok]

I do understand the idea, and I would like a tweak that would allow any and all BG2 NPCs to be found somewhere close to the initial point of the game, myself(getting Mazzy _is_ a pain). But at the same time, it would be story-breaking. Wouldn't it?

 

So, yes, Xan being found in the Government District is part of his story, too, and I do not see how it can change without rewriting and re-voicing approximately one-fourth of the mod, and his character, at that.

 

(And, anyway, who doesn't love bards? Dungeon-Be-Gone's the word.)

[WizWom]

Ah, well, as long as it comes to it, if you're going to do Duneon-be-gone to save pain, you might as well go whole hog and do game-be-gone :-)

[berelinde]

Nah.

 

There are a whole lot of ways you can get from Chapters 2 through 7. You can take your time, do all the side quests (in any order), cycle through NPCs, etc. before heading off to Spellhold.

 

Or you can come up with the money quickly and get to Spellhold with all haste and then slow down after you exit the Underdark. Up to you.

 

With Irenicus' dungeon there are pitifully few options. You have to get out, and this is how you're going to do it. About the only optional parts are whether or not you free the genie and whether or not you get the dryad's acorns. After the fourth or fifth time through, even I, with my notoriously poor memory, get bored.

[Domi]

That sounds fairly manageable... you might have to amend little bits of the Kivan and Xan mods, depending on what assumptions they currently build in. I'd have thought it works most naturally as a component of those mods if the author(s) are interested.

(Imoen is another matter, given how central she is to the plot.)

 

Uhm, same as Kulyok's Xan goes for Kivan - his quitting the party, journeying alone and coming to find PC is well documented throughout the mod and mentioned in a bunch of core talks. And it would still be horribly unfair to the rest of the BG1 characters and still would not resolve the transition problem.

 

If you do 'all new characters' Imoen can be substituted by a mysterious female Shadow Thief who frees you and is slowly revealed as another Child of Bhaal. Many possibilities there. Basically, there are enough modded NPCs to get rid of all the BG1'ers.

[Guest Morthond]

But don't you (i.e. Morthond) mean something much smaller? i.e.

 

1) remove Jaheira and/or Minsc entirely from the game (since their only justification for being in Amn is having been kidnapped with you).

2) copy those BG1 NPCs which already exist as mods in BG2 (Kivan and Xan?) into the cages

 

That sounds fairly manageable... you might have to amend little bits of the Kivan and Xan mods, depending on what assumptions they currently build in. I'd have thought it works most naturally as a component of those mods if the author(s) are interested.

(Imoen is another matter, given how central she is to the plot.)

Yes, I wasn't suggesting a total rewrite of the game Just a choice as to which BG2 npcs are in the dungeon with you. I, personally, would just like _no_ npcs in the dungeon (barring Imoen). Minsc can be shovved into the coronet and Jaheira outside the harper's stronghold. I don't really care - not like I'll be talking to them anyway I understand that other bg1 npc mods are in production (e.g. Alora, Branwen, Yeslick), so maybe these are options for cage-candidates. It'd be more believeable than "oh...yeah I just happened to be in Athkatla for some reason, what's up?" storylines.

[Sorrow]

If you do 'all new characters' Imoen can be substituted by a mysterious female Shadow Thief who frees you and is slowly revealed as another Child of Bhaal. Many possibilities there. Basically, there are enough modded NPCs to get rid of all the BG1'ers.

I really like your idea, Domi ...

And all the possibilities that it creates...

 

I think that it would be even more interesting if Irenicus would kill-off the rest of PC's BG1 party during... experiments.

[berelinde]

Yes, there are definitely enough mod NPCs to make up a full party of any temperment, but crossmod banter would have to keep up.