BG1: Alternate PC backgrounds

[Domi]

I don't know, I think it's one of those issues that cannot be made work in any sort of sensible and rational way. Plus, making it compatible with every BG1 and BG2 mod on the block will be plain impossible.

[Gorilym]

Now that is an interesting question - one could guess that Sarevok's mother had brought him there to be killed, but then why would he remember her with fondness? Perhaps the mother Sarevok remembers was simply his adopted mother, who ended up murdered by Rieltar, and his real mother was killed by the Harpers at the temple?

 

Bah, had mistakenly logged out - I posted that. As for Imoen, it really is remarkable that her maternal origin remains so shrouded, especially seeing as she's such a pivotal character.

[Domi]

Gaider said that they nobody bothered to check BG1 backstory by the time they were cooking up ToB, and BioWARE happily admits it as a mistake on their part. So BG1 backstory runs on the assumption that neither Charname's nor Sarevok's mothers were willing consorts of Bhaal wanting their children to be sacrificed. They both were rape victims that chose to give birth to the children. Both died, both had their children raised by their lovers/husbands (Gorion and Rieltar); Charname's died at birth, Sarevok's later in his life from violence. The more you try to reconsile the two contradicting stories, trying to add Temple and vile priestesses, the worse it becomes. Gorion becomes a scheming evil Harper, Sarevok need to run away and make it into the Temple somehow and then get reunited with Rieltar or have a step-mother (which he should be able to identify as not his birth mother, seeing how he managed to get out of the Temple on his own and find Rieltar) and all that. Honestly, let the sleeping dog lie, and treat BG1 and BG2 as two separate stories, and everything is just peachy. For a long-living race, well, either magically age, or let the mother survive child-birth and aquire Gorion as a lover much later in life, when PC is in his 80-ies (for an elf), and Gorion take him in after his mother dies at that time (if desired in the second childbirth).

[Lemernis]

Gorion becomes a scheming evil Harper

 

Domi is being tongue in cheek when he says "evil" there, but for those who may not be familiar with the Harpers, they work toward keeping evil from getting the upperhand in Faerun. From Code of the Harpers:

 

Harpers have been called "the meddlers of the Realms"... and "idealists to the point of lunacy..." Both those things are true....

 

What do Harpers do?... Harpers spread rumors, aid merchants and common folk in many small ways, thwart the schemes--and sometimes end the lives--of creatures who work evil ends, and try to manipulate the affairs of civilized races, both great and small, to keep kingdoms balanced and a general peace across Faerûn...

 

...Here are the most important watchwords:

 

* "Harpers work against villainy and wickedness wherever they find it but they work ever mindful of the consequences of what they do..."

* "All beings should walk free of fear, with the right to live their lives as they wish..."

* "The rule of law aids peace and fosters freedom, so long as the laws are just and those who enforce them lenient and understanding..."

[Domi]

Those who harp are of course an organization that strives to promote good. However, if Gorion did not tell PC the truth in his letter which he intended for PC to read only after his death, he starts to come accross as a manipulating schemster who tried to rise a Harper's secret weapon against the other Bhaalspawn. Or at the very least as a consummate liar. It's just one of the consequences in the indescrepancy between the two stories.

 

P.S. I am a female

[Lemernis]

Ah, gender noted.

 

I dunno, it seems clear in BG1 that Gorion feels the PC simply isn't ready to learn of his origins. Presumably the PC isn't mature enough to wield the divine power that's his to claim. I would think Gorion hopes to shape him to be a force for Good and Balance as much as possible before cluing him in.

 

The whole tale is a bit of a rip-off of the Star Wars story to be honest.

 

As the PC is the final Bhaalspawn standing who may claim Bhaal's place amongst the Faerunian pantheon, we know what he or she is to become. So Gorion probably senses the enormous power latent within the protagonist. Perhaps even when the PC is still in the womb for all we know.

[Domi]

No, I am not talking about BG1 vanilla - there it is clear that gorion cared about both PC and his mother, and left him an honest account in case he'd die- I am talking about the consistency of his Candlekeep letter with any sort of attempts to tie in ToB story (Gorion kills Alianne). Basically, it's ToB that makes a liar out of Gorion or a delusional man.

 

I think it is relatively clear that PC is but one of the contenders, he or she may or may not ascend, s/he just meets a certain condition for it. Or at least I prefer it that way.

[Lemernis]

Okay, agree with everything you just said. I'm not remembering the story in ToB too well about Gorion killing the Bhaalite priestess mother of the PC. What rationalization is given for that?

[NiGHTMARE]

There's nothing in Gorion's note to contradict the concept of the PC's mother being resurrected, becoming brainwashed by the church of Bhaal, abducting her child, meeting her second death at the hands of her former lover, and Gorion being so traumatized the Harpers had to cast a memory wipe spell on him...

 

(Tongue firmly in cheek, but hey it's a fantasy, so you never know...)

[Domi]

very firmly, Nightmare She also has to abduct her child from Gorion and bring Charname into the temple if Gorion took the baby from the childbed.

 

Edit: did yuou just edit abduction in, or was I so tired I missed it in the first place?

[Lemernis]

Sorry if this reflects my ignorance, as I just can't remember the details given in ToB about the PC's mother...

 

But wouldn't Gorion's reason for killing the mother simply be to make sure the PC ends up raised by folks who can mold him to prevent Alaundo's prophecy from coming true? In other words, if the PC is raised by a Bhaalite priestess then it seems more assured that the PC will grow up to be evil and participate in the resurrection of Bhaal. That presumably is something the Harpers are trying to thwart. Raised by Gorion the PC can be 'meddled with', to suit the Harper's (Good aligned) ends. It's not evil for Gorion to kill the PC's mother in his effort to prevent the worldwide bloodshed sure to be unleashed by Bhaal's scheme.

[jester]

@The whole tale is a bit of a rip-off of the Star Wars story to be honest.

 

More something akin to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

 

To even suggest George Lucas had a single unique idea in his films is as nice as my little sister suggesting that 'Knocking on Heaven's Door' was the best song ever written by Guns'n'Roses. *Bleech*

[Domi]

But wouldn't Gorion's reason for killing the mother simply be to make sure the PC ends up raised by folks who can mold him to prevent Alaundo's prophecy from coming true?

 

Right, but to lie to PC saying that he was PC's mother's lover and that she was raped by Bhaal and died in childbirth indicates manipulation/scheming (ie he tried to make PC hate Bhaal and embelish himself) and/or delusion (a man who can't keep his feelings straight and uses polite euphsmisms (ie she died for *him* when he found out that she was an evil priestess carrying Bhaal's child and ready to sacrifice him, not a gentle lover of his)... if ToB's story (Gorion killed Alianne who was not his lover and took PC away from the temple) is true... Again, the letter Gorion leaves is a letter intended to get into PC's hands if he, Gorion, dies. Those are usually sincere kind of documents that reveal *truth*. If Gorion uses his to obscure the truth....

[Lemernis]

Okay I think I have it straight then:

 

Deception in Gorion's letter to PC in BG1:

 

Gorion said he was Alianne's lover. And that Alianne was raped by Bhaal, and she died giving birth to the PC.

 

Truth revealed in ToB:

 

Gorion and Arlianne were not in fact lovers. Gorion rescued the PC by killing Alianne when he discovered that she was an evil priestess carrying Bhaal's child and was perparing to sacrifice him (imminently).

 

But does the apparition in ToB actually say that Gorion was not Arlianne's lover? I.e., that Gorion lied about that? Or is it just implied?

 

Because if it is only implied, and not explicitly stated, I think the story still works if Gorion and Arlianne were lovers. It could then be not unlike spy stories where agents of enemy sides get romantically involved (risktakers and thrillseekers that they are to begin with). Could be a double agent kind of thing going on there, with Arlianne trying to inflitrate the Harpers.

[Rabain]

I got the impression that the Temple Gorion rescued charname from was destroyed by the Harpers after they discovered the Temple was trying to bring back Bhaal by gathering his offspring for a sacrifice.

 

I would assume the attack by the Harpers was pretty much like any battle with people getting killed left and right and in the debacle charname was rescued by Gorion...not because he was someone special but because he was the only one he could rescue. It was also how Aliane got killed, not on purpose but just because it was a battle.

 

Sarevok was rescued in a similar fashion but just by the other side.