Conceiving BGIII's story: The Prequel

[theacefes]

I know this is a bit off from the original idea, but my ideal BG3 would be a sequel to BG2 but maybe you play as one of the NPCs from BG2.

[Lemernis]

I kind of like the idea of playing one of the NPCs as the main character, that'd be fun. I think that makes for a rather interesting mod concept in its own right for playing through BG1 and BG2.

 

I realize you haven't given any specifics about what level the characters would be at for that idea.

 

But isn't one of the main problems with anything post-ToB that everyone is so high level by then? The PC has either literally become a god, or is comparable to a god if mortal. You're like... what is it? up to level 40??!! heh! And to keep the gameplay balanced, the NPCs accompanying him have also reached that level.

 

At least if the the godhood path is chosen, ToB states that the PC roams the planes as a new god, presumably battling with spectacularly high level monsters, and probably other deities such as Cyric.

 

That sort of extraordinarily high level play could be fun in its own way, I guess.

[Tancred]

The Prequel already has a lot of potential characters built into it - it's a chance to go back over the story and explain the bits that didn't quite make sense, as well as see old faces reappear in their earlier incarnations.

 

- Gorion. Idealist and visionary? Disciple and follower of Elminster? Pragmatist, doing what needed to be done? A lot remains unsaid and untold about the man and just what drove him to do the things he did.

 

- Alianna. Depending on which version you believe, she's either a trusted friend of Gorion's or a priestess of Bhaal. What if BOTH were true? What drove a friend of Gorion and ally of the Harpers to turn to such a dark religion? What was the nature of the relationship between her and Gorion?

 

- Galvarey. Ambitious Harper and dangerous NPC in Jaheira's plot in BG2. In the past, presumably the leader of a faction of Harpers who aimed to wipe out the Bhaalspawn completely, totally at odds with Gorion's plans to try to turn the dangerous power of the Bhaalspawn in on themselves. The scene is set for a minor schism within the Harper organisation.

 

- Khalid and Jahiera. Two relatively new members of the Harpers, falling in with Gorion's plans and working with him to bring them about. How did they meet? What were they like BEFORE they met?

 

- Firkraag the Red. In BG2, a troublemaking dragon and owner of a Holy Avenger. In the past, foe of the Harpers and Gorion. What danger did Firkraag represent that led Gorion and crew to try to take him down? How did he end up with such a holy sword in his treasure hoard?

 

- Baron Ployer. In BG2, a former slaver who uses every coin he has to curse Jahiera to death. In the past, a succesful slaver with a prosperous income and a rich, wealthy life.

 

- The Cult of Cyric. Their master is fresh to the mantle of Godhood, and they begin to spread fear and terror in his name, laying the groundwork for a reign of evil that will last forever.

 

And the PC? Well, either the PC could be a randomly-made member of the Harpers, fresh to the organisation, apprenticed under Gorion as he or she learns what it is to be a Harper, or you could take some liberties and have the PC an established character from the BG story. If I had to choose a PC who had a place in BG and had plenty of room left over for character development, I'd probably go for Winthrop.

 

***

 

As for the Godhood Story, what I'd like to see is something closer to Planescape: Torment than Baldur's Gate. The PC begins his life as a God under the wing of a powerful deity (a Good/Neutral/Evil one, depending on the PC's alignment) and has to struggle not just to do some things for his new patron and battle godlike monsters, but also to promote the PC's new faith, choose prophets that would spread his faith, and wander the Planes to figure out with what he or she is the god OF.

[Lemernis]

- Gorion. Idealist and visionary? Disciple and follower of Elminster? Pragmatist, doing what needed to be done? A lot remains unsaid and untold about the man and just what drove him to do the things he did.

 

- Alianna. Depending on which version you believe, she's either a trusted friend of Gorion's or a priestess of Bhaal. What if BOTH were true? What drove a friend of Gorion and ally of the Harpers to turn to such a dark religion? What was the nature of the relationship between her and Gorion?

 

There is kind of a parallel thread going on to this topic, Nightmare's Alternate NPC Backgrounds which features discussion about the inconsistences between the letter Gorion leaves for the PC at Candlekeep, on the one hand, and the revelations in the Pocket Plane in Throne of Bhaal via the Solar's summoning of apparitions, on the other.

 

I actually don't think it's that difficult to reconcile the two different versions of what happened. I don't have the exact text in from of me for what Gorion explains about his Harper mission to rescue the PC from being sacrified by Alianna, a Bhaalist priestess. But it doesn't seem to square at all with Gorion's letter to the PC that he and Alianna were friends, "and on one occasion, lovers." The letter suggests that the friendship crossed the line into a sexual relationship one time only, and for some unexplained reason the romantic relationship was nipped in the bud.

 

However, I don't see any reason why Alianna can't begin as a Neutral (or even Good) aligned Character who is a friend of Gorion's, but who is lured to the Dark Side by a Bhaalist cult.

 

It would give more weight to that one occasion when Gorion and Alianna made love, that that event is somehow pivotal to Alianna choosing the evil path. And if so, accordingly perhaps Gorion could feel some responsibility (even if he has appreciably has none) after he discovers that Alianna has become a Bhaalist.

 

How about something like this:

 

The morning after Gorion and Alianna have their night together, Gorion for whatever reason decides it's not a good idea for him to enter a commited relationship with her at that time. Perhaps there is the age difference. Perhaps Gorion realizes he is falling in love, but feels cannot afford to have any complications in his personal life as he and the Harpers attempt to counter Bhaal's plot. In any event, Gorion gives Alianna the 'let's just remain friends' speech. Alianna has however fallen in love with him, and perhaps due to her youth has some difficulty accepting this. She is at least deeply hurt.

 

Gorion leaves that day to attend to urgent business in some far off location, such as Kara-Tur it is business related to Harper's mointoring of the Bhaalspawn scheme, but it is also something he uses as an excuse to get some distance from Alianna.

 

The spying 'lead' Gorion is following to Kara-Tur is however something of a red herring planted by Bhaal in order to assure that Gorion leaves. Bhaal then shapeshifts into the form of Gorion, and tells Alianna that he is ready to commit to her, and impregnates her. Bhaal, in the form of Gorion, then maintains a reltionship with Alianna throughout the pregnancy.

 

Something like this would certainly mess with Alianna's head. Disguised as Gorion, Bhaal convinces Alianna to join the Bhaalist cult. He initiates her into the priesthood and convinces her to sacrifice her newborn, etc.

 

Gorion learns of this diabolical plan and rushes back to try to intervene, but he is too late, with the outcome described in the Pocket Plane by his apparition.

 

He feels a burden of guilt for having left Alianna in such an emotionally vulnerable state.

 

- The Cult of Cyric. Their master is fresh to the mantle of Godhood, and they begin to spread fear and terror in his name, laying the groundwork for a reign of evil that will last forever.

 

In 1358, during the Time of Troubles, Cyric is a mortal who with the help of the god Mask (shapeshifted into a sword) slays Bhaal at Boareskyr Bridge. Thus Cyric ascends to godhood, assuming Bhaal's portfolio.

 

So in addition to Bhaal's foresight into his own death and scheme to resurrect himself, this tale should be every bit as much about Cyric's plot (as powerful, cunning mortal) to assassinate Bhaal.

 

And the PC? Well, either the PC could be a randomly-made member of the Harpers, fresh to the organisation, apprenticed under Gorion as he or she learns what it is to be a Harper, or you could take some liberties and have the PC an established character from the BG story. If I had to choose a PC who had a place in BG and had plenty of room left over for character development, I'd probably go for Winthrop.

 

What I'm envisioning as a mod project is not to literally play out these events, but rather for this very detailed, fleshed out backstory to the BG series epic to be revealed in dialogue and perhaps even cut scenes. In other words it adds new layers of depth to the story of self-discoverey about who the PC is, and the greater epic events he's a central player in.

 

But if it ever were to be made into a mod where one could play out the story, it all comes to a head in the Time of Troubles, 1358, when Bhaal is assassinated by Cyric. That is only ten years prior to the events of the BG game. But I think for it to be a NPC might be a) too restrictive, i.e., players typically want the freedom to make up their own character, b) problematic in terms of storyline for playing the BG series. In other words you'll have a particular NPC who knows the whole story, and it may be a lot of work to integrate that into the BG saga as we now know it.

 

One candidate for a NPC who could know the whole story is Entillis Fulsom, who encounters the PC in the south district of Baldur's Gate. But as mentioned, will players feel it too restrictive to play only that one character?

[Andyr]

Cyric didn't really plot to kill Bhaal. Cyric had the Tablets of Fate, and Bhaal wanted them back, so went hunting for Cyric. Unfortunately, Bhaal came off worse in the encounter. Cyric was just defending himself, really.

[Lemernis]

Ah okay, the way I've seen it alluded to on the web suggested it was more planned. Where is all this detailed in canon, btw? I recall reading once that there's a Dragon Magazine article about it. But is it outlined in any source books or novels as well?

[Andyr]

The Avatar Trilogy novel series: Shadowdale, Tantras and Waterdeep.

 

There's a pair of other novels detailing the events unfolding after--Crucible and Prince of Lies--although the trilogy is the place to start.

[Lemernis]

Perhaps anyone reading this thread who happens to own the Avatar Trilogy can provide us a synposis of what happens between Bhaal and Cyric?

[Andyr]

Pretty much what I posted above.

 

In a little more detail, Cyric was wielding the sword Godsbane at the time, which unbeknownst to him was an avatar of Mask. So technically, Mask killed Bhaal. It was a pretty epic fight, and IIRC Cyric was pretty badly beaten up in it. Bhaal's death caused an explosion, which Cyric was saved from by Mask teleporting him away.

 

I *think* that Bhaal may have kidnapped Midnight (the mortal who became the new Mystra) at this point, so Cyric's slaying was kind of a rescue, although Cyric seemed to have a weird love-hate feeling for her at the time so I am not entirely sure of his motivations.

[Smoketest]

I have a BG3 idea...

 

 

Charname wakes up from a bad dream, consisting of events in BG1 and BG2, only to find himself still safe and sound a full century before the events of the Time of Troubles is prophecied to unfold.

[Guest Morthond]

I think that it's more important for any new Baldur's Gate game or TC to actually, y'know, feature Baldur's Gate, than it is for it to be connected to the Bhaalspawn story.

 

Personally I'd love for it to focus on the areas north of the city, such as the Fields of the Dead, Boareskyr Bridge, Warlock's Crypt, Lyran's Hold, Dragonspear Castle, etc. Other towns/cities could include Soubar, Elturel, and maybe even Evereska.

I'd love to see something like this too

[Lemernis]

Ditto that. For a 'real time' prequel mod, if existing areas could be creatively recycled I'd like to see it feature new canon areas from the region to the north of BG city, such as

 

* the Citadel of Strategic Militancy

* Tempus' Tears

* Anga Vled

* Sunrise Spire

* Moonrise Towers

* Fields of the Dead

* Roaringshore

* Beldenshyn

* the Trollclaw Hills and Trollclaw Ford

* Latharl's Lantern

* Kheldrivver

* the Troll Hills

* Serpent's Cowl

* and of course Boareskyr Bridge where a key battle takes place.

 

Not all of these locations, but some of them. But I'm not sure how convincing it could feel via recycling of areas that are so well known by now as what they are in the game. I mean, I think it risks being too immersion breaking.

 

If a BG3 were an actual new game made by a professional developer, I'd like it to include depictions of Baldur's Gate and Candlekeep that are truer to canon, set in the above region.

[BigRob]

I think recycling of areas could be a real problem for such a total conversion.

 

Some areas (like Baldur's Gate itself) could be recycled as-is and not break immersion, while some of the wilderness areas would require only a very little editing to allow them to be used again, and even small villages could be constructed from the available buildings/areas.

 

The real problem would be specialty areas like Boareskyr Bridge. If the conversion could get some talented artists, then it would be possible to modify/make areas, but it would be a hell of a lot of work.

[theacefes]

TCs period are just pains in the behind. All the NPCs, all the characters, changing everything around; for what? An extra 10-20 (maybe!) hours of gameplay? From a project that years and years in the making?

 

Hate to be a party pooper but I think the chances of a TC for BG3 being made are about as likely as a professional company making it themselves.

 

It's always cool to think out the plot and stuff though.

[Lemernis]

I agree. The idea starting the thread was to concieve and integrate all the unexplained details of Bhaalspawn backstory into the game as we know it. The PC then learns the entire story from various sources. Perhaps introduce some new NPCs to do this, and/or create an expanded role for NPCs like Entiliis Fulsom, etc. Maybe some key scenes of the past are revealed via cutscene. But understandably that gets people thinking about other forms a prequel could take, and it's fun stuff to think on.