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v12BETA and Ajantis


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Ugh. Well, let me ask this. Which LT is the one where he offers to tell the PC more about the Order? (This one has me confused since my PC is a paladin and Ajantis explaining it is a rather moot option imo. But that is me)

Well, given that Charname has spent virtually all of his / her life cloistered in Candlekeep its arguably quite silly that paladin is even a class option...Though you could rationalize along the lines of a paladin Charname belonging to an order utterly distinct from the more traditional ones such as the ORH, and that this order conducts its training in places like Candlekeep. (Off the top of my head, so I'm not saying it's a good explanation or even consistent)

Oh excellent points! Truth be told, I did always wonder about that. Especially with sponsorship being offered in BG2 and all. That would make sense! Still...you would think a paladin would be familiar with the orders...*shrug*

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If I'm correct, one of the dialog options is, to paraphrase: "I know a bit about the order."

 

At which point, Ajantis will go on and tell you about it anyway.

 

But that isn't necessarily inconsistent. If I were interested in an organization, I'd still want to talk to someone who was actually in the order, no matter how much I'd read.

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Yes, I am quite familiar with paladins and I understand that not all paladins are not members of the Order.

 

However, since the PC does come from Candlekeep, a rather large library with quite a bit of information, they should know about the different orders, particularly if they are a paladin. They would want to study them in order to decide which one they would want to petition for sponsorship.

It is assumed that the PC is no member of the Order of the Radiant Heart (how could she be). If she is a paladin and knows all she wants to know about the Order there are answer options that cover that. At least I thought. I am always open to suggestions. But don't suggest Ajantis shouldn't talk about the Order if the PC is a paladin. He is so filled with this he couldn't keep quiet. :)

 

EDIT: I didn't see berelinde's post.

 

I looked it up (didn't recall my own writing :D)

There is a "thank you, I am paladin and do not want to talk about the Order" answer option that gets you through the whole talk with two clicks. What berelinde wrote is for non-paladins. So Ajantis is not explaining anything to a paladin PC, he just wants to talk about it but won't if she sais so.

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Yes, I am quite familiar with paladins and I understand that not all paladins are not members of the Order.

 

However, since the PC does come from Candlekeep, a rather large library with quite a bit of information, they should know about the different orders, particularly if they are a paladin. They would want to study them in order to decide which one they would want to petition for sponsorship.

It is assumed that the PC is no member of the Order of the Radiant Heart (how could she be). If she is a paladin and knows all she wants to know about the Order there are answer options that cover that. At least I thought. I am always open to suggestions. But don't suggest Ajantis shouldn't talk about the Order if the PC is a paladin. He is so filled with this he couldn't keep quiet. :)

 

EDIT: I didn't see berelinde's post.

 

I looked it up (didn't recall my own writing :D)

There is a "thank you, I am paladin and do not want to talk about the Order" answer option that gets you through the whole talk with two clicks. What berelinde wrote is for non-paladins. So Ajantis is not explaining anything to a paladin PC, he just wants to talk about it but won't if she sais so.

Yeah, I saw that option and did not choose it based upon its...harsness. I was afraid it would mess up the romance.

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Oh. Actually there are quite a lot answer options to apologise directly after the PC said something harsh. Like: "This doesn't interest me, Ajantis" - "Oh, do our talks bore you, my lady?" - "No, I didn't mean it like that; I just don't want to talk about it right now", and the paladin is happy again. :) As long as it's no direct offence the romance should be quite safe.

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That's the advantage of the non-English version. I like Ajantis' German soundset far more than the original one. :)

 

BTW: If you encounter a love talk where you miss answer options please let me know. I tried to include a choice for every alignment/mood but might not have succeeded in doing so.

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That's the advantage of the non-English version. I like Ajantis' German soundset far more than the original one. :)

 

BTW: If you encounter a love talk where you miss answer options please let me know. I tried to include a choice for every alignment/mood but might not have succeeded in doing so.

Thank you! I will. There is something though. I noticed in one of the talks that Ajantis mentions that "one of the reasons he became a paladin is etc". I thought he was a squire. Is this just a mistake? Other than that, I am really enjoying this romance.

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Character class and knightly status are independent.

 

Ajantis has been a paladin from the moment he started his training. He chose to follow a paladin's training and obligations. He could have chosen to become a fighter or a cleric and still served Helm, but he decided to become a paladin.

 

His status within the order is determined separately from his character class. He will always be a paladin, as long as he remains faithful to his training and beliefs, but he will continue to be a squire until his Order has determined that his skill and virtue are sufficient to become a full knight.

 

It gets confusing because not all knights are paladins, and not all of either group belong to the Order of the Most Radiant Heart. Nor are all the members of that order paladins (Anomen's a cleric--although at whatever level he is, he still hasn't managed to prove his worth).

 

Hope that helped.

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What berelinde said. Actually it's not really canon that Anomen as a cleric gets knighted by the Order of the Radiant Heart but that's BGII for you. :) (I did quite a bit of canon research for those LTs, so what Ajantis sais about Helm or the Order or Faerun's stars is all canon. I didn't make that up!!)

 

Thank you for the kind words.

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Character class and knightly status are independent.

 

Ajantis has been a paladin from the moment he started his training. He chose to follow a paladin's training and obligations. He could have chosen to become a fighter or a cleric and still served Helm, but he decided to become a paladin.

 

His status within the order is determined separately from his character class. He will always be a paladin, as long as he remains faithful to his training and beliefs, but he will continue to be a squire until his Order has determined that his skill and virtue are sufficient to become a full knight.

 

Yes, but that's basically the game engine showing its limitations - a squire at the beginning of his training and a knighted paladin should be very different creatures in terms of their abilities. You are of course essentially right in everything you're saying here, but since the game "treats all paladins the same" - the only difference between a L1 and a L20 lies in how experienced they are, they have access to the same abilities and boons - in BG terms it makes sense to think paladin = knight. It is, after all what the game seems to do.

 

A squire would arguably be unable to lay on hands or use any other paladin-specific abilities until they're at least getting close to knighthood, only because the engine poorly simulates pre-knights (if it does so at all) can they do so in-game. (re: knighthood simulation, a case in point, Anomen - if he passes his test he changes alignment and gets an utterly extreme wisdom boost)

 

And returning to the issue of whether a paladin Charname is realistic, (heh, that's always an odd word to use in these contexts) - with whom would he / she train in Candlekeep, to whom take vows etc.? A "paladin" straight out of Candlekeep whose reputation drops too low becomes fallen, but from what code and / or oath could he or she have fallen from? LG paladins are not individualists like a "Sword Angel" or a "Holy Liberator" etc, the idea that someone cloistered from the outside world could somehow read themself into squirehood is IMHO preposterous. But this has strayed way off-topic already.

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That would be the difference between a squire paladin (Ajantis introduces himself as one in the original BG1 dialogue, btw.) and a knighted paladin, and how the engine would take this into consideration. But yeah, that's off-topic, and more or less a discussion on how canon/non-canon/whatever the BG series is. :)

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That would be the difference between a squire paladin (Ajantis introduces himself as one in the original BG1 dialogue, btw.) and a knighted paladin, and how the engine would take this into consideration. But yeah, that's off-topic, and more or less a discussion on how canon/non-canon/whatever the BG series is. :)

 

Well put. Indeed, it's essentially the same point that I was trying to make, only you said it much more concisely. ;) In retrospect, I think my previous post may have been rather ranty - in my defense, I think somebody might have switched my coffee with decaf while I wasn't looking today. :D:D

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It would be easy enough to use the AddKit() action to change from a squire to a full knight.

And you can use the AddSpell() action to add in the innates for the class.

 

So, it is actionable. One could turn Squire Ajantis into a "less than paladin", and put in a quest which brings him to full paladinhood at the end.

 

Oh, and the Order of the Radiant Heart values humility; which Anomen lacks in abundance :-0

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Thank you all for clearing that up for me. I thought I needed to have my eyes checked again!

 

(I did quite a bit of canon research for those LTs, so what Ajantis sais about Helm or the Order or Faerun's stars is all canon. I didn't make that up!!)

Suuuuuure! :)

 

Thank you for the kind words.

Well deserved I assure you. Lovely job on the romance and conversation pieces.

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