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Iron Throne 5th floor


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Yikes, this is tough! I'm really getting my butt kicked badly over and over on the Iron Throne's 5th floor. I'm using an unconventional party composition, and I expect a good deal of the troubles I'm having is due to that. Anyway, this battle is wicked. I may have to go back to an earlier save, memorize a whole new set of spells and lay lots of summoned monsters down, or prepare with something else I haven't yet thought of.


The combination of much smarter mages and improved dopplegangers is a lot to contend with. Not complaining, just commenting on how much more difficult it is (exactly what I want).

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Glad you're enjoying it...


When I playtested the L5 endfight, I found that the mages and priests were smart enough but a bit exposed to melee fighters... that's what the two extra acolytes are for. I'm slightly surprised the doppelganger is causing trouble, though.


Incidentally, I imagine that by now you've got quite a trove of magic-protection items, so this is probably the time to use them... though I guess given your party is magic-heavy in its own right, they're less useful than to some.

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Yeah, you're right there's only one doppleganger and he falls pretty quickly.


I'm using potions of freedom, magic protection and blocking, a few other things, a number of other potions. Unfortunately I am almost forced to use my wild mage as a meleer, since the party lacks tanks.


The frustrating thing is that this Iron Throne mob most often saves against almost any spell I cast. It's very difficult then to neutralize any of them. I'm casting Emotion, Hold Person, Contagion, Slow, Confusion, and so on. I've always been pleased with how in BG2 the lowly second level spell Ghoul Touch works shockingly well against even many opponents in ToB, but they're saving against that as well. It doesn't look like Silence is doing anything to them either.


On one occasion Xzar finally managed to successfully cast Contagion and Confusion which certainly helped take out the two targets. But it made no difference as to the final outcome. But most of the time the enemies are saving aginst these spells. And then the enemy outnumbers the party, gulping down potions of speed and whatnot, and then doing heavy melee damage very fast against a non-melee oriented party.

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Yes, I can see why it would be a pain without tanks.


They're not cheating with saving throws (at least, I haven't introduced any cheating; I admit I haven't checked to see if Bioware cheated). But they're wrapped in quite a lot of protective magic, and some of them will have taken defence potions.


Have you tried Dispel Magic, or the Sorcerous Sundries dispelling arrows?

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I have been casting Greater Malison also, btw.


I took the party back out to memorize a different spell selection, where I really beefed up on Monster Summoning II and Animate Dead. Anyway, I've only made a couple tries with those summons--neither successful--but I think I may have a chance of keeping them occupied long enough with the summons to possibly defeat them.


I have not tried using Dispel Magic. But I may to go back to the save before they rested with their new spell selection and add a couple of Dispell Magics.

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Well, I finally got a win by summoning a horde of monsters and undead, and casting Dispel Magic at key points in the battle. Turns out I did have a couple scrolls of Dispel Magic in a scroll case, so I didn't have to go back out and re-memorize spells. Even then I settled for an outcome I rarely accept--NPCs getting killed.


At the conclusion of the first phase of the battle, I ended up having to raise three fallen party members: Minsc, Imoen, and Tiax. That left my wild mage, Xzar, and Finch to finish off the remaining two mages. No easy task. Even then, I found myself laughing in disbelief when I realized one of the enemy was hiding after having taken a potion of invisibility. Perhaps it was just coincidence, but he apparently managed to remain beyond the range of my casting Detect Invisibility to try to make sure there was no one left. I only realized he was there because I could hear his footsteps!


I had collected all but Immy's gear by the time I realized the party could still be attacked. So before risking having to reload again, I took my save at that point by heading to the 4th floor. I then went to the temple of Helm in the Duchal Place district to have the three fallen party members raised. Then to the Three Old Kegs to rest and heal.


Upon my return to the 5th floot of the Iron Throne I found the one mage who had hidden himself, Alai, was still plenty lethal for a solitary wizard. It even took a few reloads to take him out without incurring any more fatalities.


I am clearly going to have to revise my strategies for the remaining key battles. I have to compensate in some way for the party's lack of tanks.

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Lol, I'm saving Durlag's for a SCS game with a standard party. After this Iron Throne battle I feel like I'll be lucky to complete my current game with


PC Wild Mage (spellcaster, meleer)

Imoen (undualed Thief)

Minsc (Berserker)

Xzar (spellcaster, meleer)

Tiax (meleer, spellcaster)

Finch (spellcaster, healer)

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I found the one mage who had hidden himself, Alai, was still plenty lethal for a solitary wizard.


In some ways, solitary wizards are actually more lethal - they can use area-effect magic with impunity.


This is one area where SCS trades difficulty for realism - on balance it might be tactically worth it to let wizards use Fireball etc more, but it means that every so often they do something so numbingly stupid that it breaks suspension of disbelief.

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Okay, this time I had a much easier go of it on the 5th floor of the Iron Throne with my current party of


PC Fighter 8

Berserker 7/Stormlord of Talos 8 (SKed dual class)

Mage 7/Kensai 8 (SKed multiclass)

Monk 8

Mage 8/Assassin 8 (SKed multiclass)

Imoen - Blade 10 (via Level One NPCs)


Because of the use of mind control spells like Chaos, this would seems like it would be a nearly impossible battle without prebuffing (metagaming). I suppose you could reasonably have a party member scout the 5th floor while stealthed or invisible, which initiates the forced dialogue, and character scoots down the stairs and the party buffs. Anyway, I skipped all that and just buffed up beforehand.


The Ease of Use Script makes a big difference, I'm finding. I guess there is no wasted energy when it's on. A buffed, hasted party acts like a swarming school of piranha with this script.


The PC used the Greenstone Amulet, which is proving invaluable for SCS. The Bererker/Stormlord was Enraged. I had my Mage-Kensai and Mage-Assassin cast Emotion. The enemy mages only managed to mind control Immy, and most of the enemies fell pretty fast. I was surprised that I only had to reload once.


At the end of the battle I was unable to save on the 5th floor, getting a message "there are enemies nearby." One of them did appear and tried to make a backstab after the melee was over, so I figured another one must still be lurking. (I had already spent my one memorized Detect Invisibility spell.) I spoke to and released the neutral character (Thaldorn?) hiding in the bedroom, btw. I figured another enemy must have been an enemy that went invisible. However, after leaving the building and resting, I did not find any further enemies on the floor. So perhaps there is a bug here? I recall the same thing happening last game, actually.


A more general observation about enemy mages' use of mind control spells such as Confusion, Domination, Chaos, etc.: without the 5th level clerical spell Chaotic Commands, these are terrible to contend with. But you don't get that until you have a 9th level cleric.


For other modes of protection from mind control spells it seems one is left with the greenstone amulet, Berserker's Enrage special ability, magic blocking potions, and protection from magic scrolls. Not sure what else... The magic blocking potions (at least some of them) also strip the character of valuable buffs, though.


You can't do much when half or more of your party is running around in a daze attacking each other. I'm not sure what other measures I can use beyond the above protections, which I use for my tanks.


The greenstone amulet is rechargeable when sold and rebought from a merchant (50 charges). So everyone in the party could pass it around and take a toke. But other than that and the measures mentioned above, any suggestions how to counter those devastating mind control spells?

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The problem is that the average encounter should not, in my opinion, see arcane and divine users prebuff. Only some special NPCs should because they should stand out from the normal fights. Instead the prebuffering components script kicks in regularly, levelling the difficulties in a way.

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You're absolutely right about it. It's not realistic that mages that could prebuff because have the magical powers for it don't do it while others do. But realism comes, in my personal opinion, after gameplay and before challenge.


The gameplay results somehow crippled by having all arcane and divine casters use protective spells although yes, it's certainly more realistic so and you do have a point in what you say.


I hope my frequent feedbacks are not seen as a costant harassment/criticism to this Mod which I do love. I'd just try to give a small contribution from my personal point of view. :cry:

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