Suggestion and ideas

[Azazello]

Some type of robe that can only be used by monks would be particularly nice, as would similarly restricted ioun stones and / or jewelry etc...

Refinements has an option to allow standard robes to be worn by Monks. An enlightened forethought, I think. And I've been seeing a few other robes specifically for monks in my current game, but have no clue which mods are putting them there.

[Gorilym]

Refinements has an option to allow standard robes to be worn by Monks. An enlightened forethought, I think. And I've been seeing a few other robes specifically for monks in my current game, but have no clue which mods are putting them there.

I know, I always install that Refinements component... But it would be even nicer to have a few robes that ONLY monks can use. If you find out which mod adds robes like that, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[SixOfSpades]

All right. Then my kits:

 

SHIELDBEARER:

Advantages:

- +1 to AC and +5% immunity to missle damages per 6 levels

- Starts with 2 points in sword and shield style

- Once per day per 4 levels can use 'Defend' ability, which grants him for 5 rounds +4 to AC, immunity to missles, +1 to saving throws, but decrease his movement speed and grants penalty -2 to damages and thaco.

- At 12 level he gains 'Bastion' ability, which grants him for next 3 rounds immunity to fear, mind spells, stun or sleep.

 

Disadvantages:

- Limited to normal weapon specialisation in melee weapons, and proficent (1 point) in range weapons

- Can't achieve other weapon style than sword and shield

- Can dualclass only to cleric

Not to quibble over their being 'your' kits or not, but this Shieldbearer sounds almost exactly like an early version of my Shieldbearer, right down to the name of the Bastion ability. I have since been doing some fine-tuning, and now my version of the kit looks like this:

 

SHIELDBEARER

CLASS: Fighter

RACE: Any

ALIGNMENT: Any non-Chaotic

 

          Shieldbearers are most commonly seen on the front lines of large battles, serving as juggernauts of defense that are very difficult to bring down, enabling them to protect their comrades by halting the enemy's offensive. Instead of the traditional warrior's regimen of sparring, weaponmastery, and archery practice, their training consists of dodging, blocking, and parrying incoming blows, sometimes even to the point of knocking an enemy's weapon out of his hands, or snatching incoming arrows before they strike an ally. Shieldbearers are most effective when used en masse in a shieldwall formation, and so they are almost always trained in large groups, which has the effect of teaching them to move and react as a unit. They are known for their loyalty, honesty, and devotion to companions (the worship of Ilmater is common among Shieldbearers), and it is this emotional fortitude that helps them resist certain spells that might otherwise cause them to fail in their task of guarding their friends in combat. They develop a close rapport with their shield and armor (just as other warriors strive to become one with their weapon), and have developed a means of using their shield to drive away dangerous opponents that harm their allies: In an emergency, a Shieldbearer can plant his feet and drive the full weight of his armored body squarely into his attacker, shield first, thus knocking the enemy away and sending him sprawling to the ground.

 

ADVANTAGES:

• Base -1 bonus to Saving Throws
  
• Base -2 bonus to Armor Class
  
• -1 bonus to all AC Modifiers every 4 levels
  
• Gains 5% Resistance to Missile damage every 5 levels (stops after Level 25)
  
• Every 6 levels can cast Bastion, which lasts for one round per 3 levels of the Shieldbearer and renders him immune to Fear, Maze, Imprisonment, Confusion, knockback, and death magic. This also slows the Shieldbearer's movement rate by half for the duration.
  
• Every 7 levels can Shieldbash any enemy within melee range once per day. This deals 2D8 Blunt damage and knocks the victim back. After Level 11 it will knock the victim down (unless Save vs. Death) and after Level 19 will Stun him for one round (unless Save vs. Breath with -3 bonus). Large creatures such as dragons or
  giants will not be knocked back or stunned.
  
• Every 10 levels (starts at Level 1 with one use) can cast Defensive Harmony once per day.
  

DISADVANTAGES:

• Base number of Attacks per Round never goes higher than 1
  
• May place only a single proficiency point in any 1-handed weapon
  
• May not place any proficiency points in any 2-handed weapon
  
• May not put proficiency points into any Weapon Style except Sword & Shield
  
• +1 penalty to THAC0 at every 3rd level (Stops after Level 21)
  
• Does not get the ToB HLAs of Greater Whirlwind, Greater Deathblow, or Critical Strike
  

If you will have got troubles with implenting some of Drunken Master things (like bonuses to attributes by alcohol) then you can check Lester NPC Mod, which have got Drunken Warrior kit (for fighter). But it's now only in polish (translation in progress).

Interesting--I had no idea there was one of these already out there (though, if I had, it would have been pretty amazing, as I don't speak Polish). I also lament the fact that Monks can't have kits (at least, not applied during Character Creation), and so designed a more Fighter-like variant of my own. If you could provide the specifics of how "Lester" translates the Drunken Master from a PnP Monk Prestige Class into a BG2 Fighter kit, I'd love to compare the two. Anyway, here's mine:

 

DRUNKEN MASTER

CLASS: Fighter

RACE: Any

ALIGNMENT: Any non-Lawful

 

          One reason to always be careful whom you insult in a tavern--you never know if the sot in the dirty leather armor slumped over the bar is some lowly ruffian, or a highly skilled Drunken Master, renowned for his feats of intoxicated brawling. Though they refuse to burden themselves with the cumbersome equipment carried by more "professional" adventurers, their natural skills help to compensate: By staggering and weaving in a lopsided manner they can avoid their enemy's attacks and get close enough to land a killing stroke, lumbering through their foe's defenses by sheer brute force (usually by grabbing with one hand and striking with the other). Most tend to be accomplished knife fighters, though in a knock-down, drag-out, no-holds-barred brawl, they have the uncanny ability of using damn near anything as a weapon: Bottles, chair legs, skewers, mops, benches, other people, you name it. Needless to say, Drunken Masters are

not exactly held in any great esteem by those who take their dedication to the martial professions seriously.

 

ADVANTAGES:

• -1 bonus to Armor Class every 7 levels
  
• -1 bonus to THAC0 every 8 levels
  
• Bonus 1/2 attack per round at Level 19
  
• Base +2 bonus to Constitution
  
• Special Ability of Drunken Rage, usable 1x/day per 6 levels: For 10 rounds, the Drunken Master recieves +2 bonuses to hit and damage, a +2 penalty to Armor Class, and immunity to Fear, Charm, and Hold. For the duration of the Rage, each round there is a 20% chance that the Drunken Master will go Berserk for that
  round, gaining additional +2 bonuses to hit and damage, but becoming impossible to control. After the Rage expires, the Drunken Master will become Fatigued and Slowed for a duration of 2 turns.
  
• Special Ability of Procure Spiritous Liquors, usable 1x/day per 5 levels: This deducts 25gp from the party's total gold and creates a bottle of alcohol. When drunk by most characters, it causes nothing more than Intoxication, but when consumed by a Drunken Master, each drink grants +1 bonuses to hit and damage, a +1 bonus to either Strength or Constitution (50% chance of each), and -1 penalties to Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom. All these effects are cumulative, and last for 2 turns, after which there is a 1-hour recovery period, during which the Drunken Master is Slowed, Fatigued, and has a 25% chance of falling Unconscious for the full hour. Inexperienced Drunken Masters require a full 2 rounds to empty each bottle of alcohol, but as they learn to chug their liquor, they create drinks that can be drained more quickly. Furthermore, after being drunk, each empty bottle can be used as a Club until it gets smashed in an attack, which destroys the weapon but does additional damage to the target.
  
• Gains access to the ToB HLA of Evasion
  

DISADVANTAGES:

• Cannot wear Helmets, Shields, or any metal armor
  
• Limited to Mastery (+++) in Dagger, Short Sword, Club, Mace, and Staff
  
• Limited to Proficiency (+) in Dart, and all melee weapons not listed above
  
• May not place any proficiency points in all other missile weapons
  
• Base -3 penalty to Charisma
  
• Base -2 penalties to Intelligence and Wisdom
  
• Does not get the ToB HLAs of Greater Whirlwind or Greater Deathblow
  

 

[EDIT] Oh yeah, I'm fully in favor of the lesser Mage Robes being opened up to Monks, and Kensai and Shapeshifters as well. If they're allowed to wear clothes, why not Robes? But Monks in particular need their own garb--perhaps called gis, to let players know which ones are Monk-specific and which aren't. They particularly need one that provides Negative Plane Protection, as (solo) Monks are unable to protect themselves from Level Drain in any other way.

[Gorilym]

They particularly need one that provides Negative Plane Protection, as (solo) Monks are unable to protect themselves from Level Drain in any other way.

 

Excellent idea. I think such an item would be eminently suitable as a monk-specific stronghold reward, particularly if monks are allowed to choose the cleric stronghold (which IIRC, Oversight allows).

[SixOfSpades]

I think such an item would be eminently suitable as a monk-specific stronghold reward,

Em, except that that would mean it's accessible only if the PC is a Monk, meaning NPC Monks like Aklon would still be screwed. Since NPP is a real pain the butt to be forced to live without, my idea would be to have a new store carrying a few Kara-Turan flavored items, and/or incorporate those items into an existing store--perhaps Maheer. But this is getting too far from Sword & Fist. I think.

[Gorilym]

Fair enough about NPC monks, though as you yourself pointed out, only a solo Monk is without the means to gain NPP - you could cast the cleric spell on Aklon et al. I do think that making such a powerful and useful item available as early as Maheer would make standard vampires etc. even more of a joke. I suggested adding a Song & Silence-style store to Sword & Fist earlier in this thread, and I still think it would make a great addition, however this item in particular would perhaps be better suited as a reward slightly later in the game (but not necessarily as a stronghold reward). But yeah, it might be beyond the scope of the mod in any case.

[BigRob]

I concur here. Negative plane protection is a hugely powerful ability. Adding it for solo monks (so CHARNAME) would seem to be fine to me, but since you can get NPP for NPC monks, I think they're fine as-is. Vampires and other energy draining creatures do need to present some threat to the party.

 

Adding some general robes/gis etc for monks is a good idea in general though.

[Andyr]

Have you coded those kits, 6oS, or are they at the concept stage?

 

If I do add items then I may split them between existing shops and a new Monk store (similar to Raoul in Song and Silence). They'd be available for both Tutu and BG2, however, so wouldn't contain anything too powerful.

[yarpen]

SixOfSpades -

 

Hm... it's look REALLY similiar. Sorry for that - I was making it to being similiar for polish prestigue class Shieldbearer (at dnd.polter.pl) with a little connection with Dwarven defender (that bastion ability). Maybe I've seen your kit long time ago, but it wasn't planned My apologise.

 

It's in upcoming in days Paladins of Faerun Kitpack - if you want, I can erase it and make another kit. Now it's looking:

 

SHIELDBEARER: This type of warrior is a main part of most of Faerunian armies. He's expert in defensive fighting with tactical shield-using. But he must paid by his fighting skills.

 

Advantages:

- +1 do AC and +5% to immunity to mislle per 6 levels

- +1 do all saving throws

- Gains free sword and shield style specialisation

- Once per day per 4 levels can use Shield ability, which grants him +4 to AC, +2 to AC vs. missles, but he's slowed and gain -2 penalty to thaco and damages. Shield turns 8 rounds.

- After 15th level can once per day use Bastion ability, which grants him for next 3 rounds immunity to mind-affecting spells and fear. He gains additional use at 19th and 24th levels.

 

Disadvantages:

- Is limited to standard specialisation (2 points) in one-handed weapons

- Is limited to profinency (1 point) in two-handed weapons

- Can't achieve other fighting style than "sword and shield style"

- Can dualclass only into cleric

 

About Fighter of Beer Ale - this kit isn't available for PC - only NPC called Lester have got it. Translation into english is in progress. I can paste it when Crawley translate it But kit have got most of Drunken Master abilities

[SixOfSpades]

Since the Negative Plane Protection spell has a duration so short as to be practically worthless, I tend to disregard it. You would need, what, ten consecutive castings to clear Bodhi's Lair?

 

My original idea for the "Kara-Tur" store was a guy named Lo Kenji, staying at the Crooked Crane. If he only arrives in town right after the player starts Chapter 3, then we don't have to worry about allowing access to a powerful item too soon, and non-Evil Monks can still roleplay their alignment without having to resort to a PfU scroll.

 

Vampires are a joke because they depend too much on their Level Drain--block that, and they're pansies. If they were a bit more physically dangerous and made more use of in-character spells & abilities (Vampiric Touch, DUHHHH), and could only drain levels on, say, 20% of their hits, they would be much more correctly balanced.

 

Sorry, Andyr, I'm still at the "Idea Machine" stage, no code is going to be forthcoming in the immediate future. But watch this space: I have a good computer now, so the "Heals on Wheels" mod will be out sometime soon.

 

Earlier, I mentioned that having kits for Monks is impossible, at least during Character Creation. But how does this scenario strike you: You, as a PC Monk, join a Monastery and serve the Master of the order. You fulfill many tasks, and after some time the Master is willing to accept you as his personal disciple, in line to take over when he dies. At this time, you are offered a choice of paths, and your answer (or lack thereof) will permanently reflect your course in this life. Could we, as modders, not implement an effective Kit Selection at this point? In a similar vein, could we not do the same thing for Sorcerors and Barbarians (the Drunken Master kit I designed sounds more than half like a Barbarian kit already)?

[SixOfSpades]

yarpen: Well, I've posted my Shieldbearer ideas on a few threads regarding Fighter kits, since some people did seem genuinely interested in it, so you probably saw it there and some part of it just stuck in the back of your head. I don't mind, I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding.

 

I looked at the Dwarven Defender too, but then I thought, why make it just for Dwarves? All races would have a good reason for somebody to be a really great Tank.

 

True, the Shieldbearer does sound a lot like a Paladin, but it's still a Fighter kit. I made a Paladin version of the kit, too--that one is called the Martyr. If you're interested, check the Divine Remix forum, as this isn't the place for it.

 

- Rather than haggle over the differences between my Shieldbearer and yours, I'll just explain why my version is the way he is:

- The armor class gets better with levels because that's what happens with training & experience; you improve. Besides, he's the counterpart to the Kensai.

- Improving the base AC is not as good as improving their AC Modifiers: Base AC is capped at -24, but the modifiers have no cap. Shieldbearers should be allowed to reach the lowest AC possible.

- The Bastion ability is designed to essentially glue the Shieldbearer to the floor, which is why the immunities that he gains are to things that would cause him to abandon his post, knockback and Imprisonment included.

- Shieldbashing is just too cool not to use.

- To be fair, their defensive skill is counterbalanced by their offensive lack of skill. Just restricting their weapon proficiencies isn't enough--their THAC0 and ApR must suffer, too. So my Shieldbearer doesn't fight like a Warrior, in fact he's a little bit worse than a Cleric.

- Fine-tuning HLA access for kits to make them more in-character is always a good thing.

- Dual-classing should not be restricted for Shieldbearers. I went through all possible combination, and came to the conclusion that, for example, a Shieldbearer->Mage would indeed be different from a plain Fighter->Mage, but not any more powerful. Certainly not as powerful as a Kensai->Mage.

[yarpen]

Hmm... I like your ideas and suggestions But...

 

- AC bonus in my kit haven't got any limit. I'm not giving him base class bonus - just modifier.

- It's a good idea for immunity to stun (but I think imm. to imprisoment is too powerfull) for Bastion ability.

- Shieldbash is too overpowered. Damages! Hey, two handed sword deals 1D10. My proposition for shieldbash. "Every 7 levels can Shieldbash any enemy within melee range once per day. This deals 1D6 Blunt damage and knocks the victim back. After Level 5th it will knock the victim down (unless Save vs. Death) and after Level 12th will Stun him for one round (unless Save vs. Breath with -3 bonus). Large creatures such as dragons or giants will not be knocked back or stunned."

- About that Shieldbearer fighting abilities. I agree with you, but I don't like THACO penalties, when they are non-connected with fighter Thaco progress. I think we should give him instead of +1/2lvl, +2/4 lvl (like a cleric). But take him off specialisation? Maybe you got right.

 

All right - end of offtop about Shieldbearer.

[SixOfSpades]

AC bonus in my kit haven't got any limit. I'm not giving him base class bonus - just modifier.

This is where I have to be really careful about things getting lost in translation. When I talk about AC Modifiers, I don't mean things like Rings of Protection, that grant a bonus to your base AC. I'm talking about things like Girdles of Bluntness, that grant bonuses to your AC Modifiers against a certain weapon type. The Infinity Engine will limit your base AC: Even if you were wearing a Ring Of Protection+50, your AC would still "only" be -24. But there is no limit to how low the AC Modifiers can take you.

 

It's a good idea for immunity to stun (but I think imm. to imprisoment is too powerfull) for Bastion ability.

It is indeed a powerful thing to be immune from. But how often will that particular immunity be of use? Don't forget that Improved Kangaxx has many more tricks besides Imprisonment, and in this fight, a Shieldbearer wouldn't be able to do anything that a Berserker couldn't anyway.

 

Shieldbash is too overpowered. Damages! Hey, two handed sword deals 1D10.

You may have a very valid point. But I liked the idea of their most damaging attack being dealt with their shield rather than their weapon, one more encouragement to roleplay. But considering how many times it could be used per day anyway, it won't make any difference in battle one way or the other.

 

I don't like THACO penalties, when they are non-connected with fighter Thaco progress.

But they are related to their progress in learning the skills of a fighter: Shieldbearers devote their training to mastery of shield and armor, letting their weaponmastery skills suffer as a result. Clipping the Shieldbearer's THAC0 and ApR is the perfect Disadvantage for a kit that's all about defense. And just FYI, Clerics' THAC0 improves at the rate of 2 points every [/b]3[/b] levels: 0, 0, -2, 0, 0, -2. A Shieldbearer is almost exactly the same, just at different times: -1, -1, 0, -1, -1, 0. The Cleric's THAC0 is a little bit better than the Shieldbearer's, however, because Clerics gain levels a bit faster.

[ronin69hof]

@Andyr

 

Have you had a chance to consider the Duskblade? I still have the pages from the PHBII as pdf files. If you need them just let me know and I can email them to you.

 

ronin

[Andyr]

Yes, please send them to me.