Praise to the genius of the modders

[berelinde]

During the course of proofreading, I've read the work of most of the modders who participated in the BG1 NPC project.

 

All I can say is that I am awed by the genius and the eloquence of the modders who made this happen.

 

Let us not forget what BG1 was. It showed the barest glimpses of personality. It was epic, but never fully developed. The modders that made BG1 NPC have really brought BG1 to life, and I am grateful.

[WizWom]

If I wanted to play with Monty Haul, I'd go on the set of "Let's Make a Deal"

 

Imoen making a book which gives a dex bonus? And later, an amulet of protection +1 you can use with magic armor?

 

Lord Foreshadow handing you a Ring of Human Influence? At least in BG2 you had to fight a couple shadows and illusionary wolfweres before you got that. And solve a math riddle.

 

Never mind adding a slew of magic items for Kivan, Ajantis, etc... er, um, I like the additional character development. But I doubt I'll do more than perfunctory testing with BG1NPC project any more.

[berelinde]

Man, I disagree with you in the strongest possible way.

 

I am not criticizing your opinion. You are certainly entitled to it, even if I disagree, which I do.

 

I am offended that you chose to sour something that was intended as a thank you to the modders who put a lot of time and effort into making BG1 a little bit nicer for us.

 

If you want to talk about over-powered items, start your own thread.

[Gorilym]

If I wanted to play with Monty Haul, I'd go on the set of "Let's Make a Deal"

 

Imoen making a book which gives a dex bonus? And later, an amulet of protection +1 you can use with magic armor?

 

Lord Foreshadow handing you a Ring of Human Influence? At least in BG2 you had to fight a couple shadows and illusionary wolfweres before you got that. And solve a math riddle.

 

Never mind adding a slew of magic items for Kivan, Ajantis, etc... er, um, I like the additional character development. But I doubt I'll do more than perfunctory testing with BG1NPC project any more.

 

I don't really get where you're coming from here... If you think the new items are too powerful, then nobody's forcing you to use them. Better yet, you're a modder yourself - you could easily remove them from the copy you play. I'm not saying I completely disagree about all these items - Lord Foreshadow's ring is a bit much for me, so I don't use it - but I don't see why you're complaining about them in a thread like this. For the record, I second berelinde's sentiment.

[aliss77777]

All I can say is that I am awed by the genius and the eloquence of the modders who made this happen.

 

Let us not forget what BG1 was. It showed the barest glimpses of personality. It was epic, but never fully developed. The modders that made BG1 NPC have really brought BG1 to life, and I am grateful.

 

I second that!! I can't say enough about how awesome this mod is. BG1 was a great game when it came out, but the lack of party banter really makes it feel 'lonely' when compared to newer RPG's. The BG1 NPC allows you to add a lot more depth to your game and really makes it come alive

[Domi]

Everyone has their own idea of what an overpowred item is, and if they should be included into the mod. In BG2 many NPC come with the equipment or get small presents through their quests and game. We imitated this staying on the level of BG1 items. The items come through interactions/quests, NPCs do not go beserk if you drop them if you consider them overpowered, and, in case of Kivan/Ajantis go either against their proficiencies or "correct" their proficiencies to what the author thought more appropriate for the character than what TUTU set up (ie Kivan's unexplicable halberd; his spear gives a player a gentle incentive to invest into a spear). IIRC all items come from Phase II material, and it was one of the reasons why the project was done in Phases: a simple action of not including Phase II into the install got rid of this content if a player thought it an inappropriate part of NPC development.

 

I understand that people will not agree with each and every decision we made while developing, but to be honest, I have not seen adverse reaction to the items, which I think was explained quite easily by the ease with which each of them can be either used or not. It's too bad that they come accross as offensive for some, but well, I think it will be a bit of an overkill to make it optional, seeing that the use is optional. I think we had a public list of the items somewhere on the forum at the time of development specifically for discussing them and warning the player where they are.

[SimDing0]

I don't think there are many players who create characters which can be legitimately roleplayed to say, "Hey, this item is too powerful. I'll just leave it on the ground." For a mod which emphasises character development, it seems counter-intuitive to advise throwing it out the window so readily.

[aliss77777]

I don't think there are many players who create characters which can be legitimately roleplayed to say, "Hey, this item is too powerful. I'll just leave it on the ground." For a mod which emphasises character development, it seems counter-intuitive to advise throwing it out the window so readily.

 

hey SimDing0!!! since i know you are an influential modder, i wanted to share a comment about the NPC-specific items: some of them make no sense.

 

For example, Kivan gets a spear from the wizard at High Hedge. the problem? Kivan has no spear proficiencies.

 

Ajantis has a cool Ilvastarr family shield. The problem? All this proficiencies are for shieldless fighting: he has 2 *'s in 2-handed sword and 2 *'s in two-handed fighting. so you end up never using the shield.

 

other than that, keep the good times rolling!!

[cmorgan]

Hmmm... well, I understand what everyone is saying... I just am not sure that this is productive in a particular sense -- BG1 NPC is no longer under development.

 

To be clear, I think that most of the discussion here is about what folks think should or should not be in the mod. I think what we probably need to be asking is how to have the discussion participants create an alternate package, and move us forward!

 

There are no content or materials changes in BG1 NPC anticipated, ever. Forever. Finis, end of discussion on the new content! I am a Closer/Bugtracker for this project. The mods authors have given awesomely of their time; we are extending only those specific changes and necessary fixes that make possible both Tutu and BGT usage of the mod content, and make the original authors intent work under new modding code and projects. Many of the original mod authors are not modding in the community or have moved on to new projects. It would be disrespectful to rip up what they have created.

 

The additional materials scheduled over the next year are the translation packages, bugfixes, and portraits that are designed for the project (instead of ones borrowed from multiple sources).

 

This means that anyone can discuss potential changes to content, and supply any opinions they want; I know this community is strong enough to withstand even vehement dissent. The focus should be on what teams of people would like to mod on top of BG1 NPC. There are lost of ways of making an alteration pack for BG1 NPC in your own image

 

I myself want to revisit Imoen, because I think my little sister needs a serious quest with seriously cool content. I just am intending to eventually create my own mod that probably will require BG1 NPC, and go from there. I know some of the playtesters arre looking for new NPCs to add, too. So mod away, dudes!

[NiGHTMARE]

For example, Kivan gets a spear from the wizard at High Hedge. the problem? Kivan has no spear proficiencies.

 

Ajantis has a cool Ilvastarr family shield. The problem? All this proficiencies are for shieldless fighting: he has 2 *'s in 2-handed sword and 2 *'s in two-handed fighting. so you end up never using the shield.

 

This precise issue was addressed two posts before yours:

 

The items come through interactions/quests, NPCs do not go beserk if you drop them if you consider them overpowered, and in case of Kivan/Ajantis go either against their proficiencies or "correct" their proficiencies to what the author thought more appropriate for the character than what TUTU set up (ie Kivan's unexplicable halberd; his spear gives a player a gentle incentive to invest into a spear).

[Lemernis]

I think the BG1 Tutu Banter Pack is an awesome piece of work. As far as I'm concerned there's far more depth revealed to the characters in the BG1 Tutu Banter Pack than what vanilla BG2 offers with its NPCs (or in the few banters that have been added via BG2 Banter Packs for that matter).

 

If you feel an item created for an NPC in the BG1 Tutu Banter Pack is overpowered, then I would suggest simply not using it--it's really as simple as that.

 

For those who may feel that a few items might unbalance the game, try installing Sword Coast Stratagems. You'll be glad you have a few extra helpful items like those at your disposal!

[Domi]

Ajantis has a cool Ilvastarr family shield. The problem? All this proficiencies are for shieldless fighting: he has 2 *'s in 2-handed sword and 2 *'s in two-handed fighting. so you end up never using the shield.

 

Because the primary purpose of the shield was the insignia and Jastey felt that Ajantis was more of a sword-and-shield fighter. So we designed a shield to showcase the FR lore insignia of house Ilvastarr, had a talk written about it, and gave the shield the proficiency that offset TUTU's default 2 weapon fighting.

 

If you look at Ajantis BG1 vanilla full profs list, nothing indicates him as a two-weapon fighter:

 

Large Swords

Blunt Weapons

Bows

Small Swords

 

TUTU creators chose to ignore one-handed blunt weapons and small swords (large swords iirc are not exclusevely 2-handed swords in BG1 either) in favor of a style, trying to showcase, perhaps, the BG2 features implemented, but it did mess up somewhat the vanilla vs TUTU character.

 

As we were commited not top mess with CREs (and with the kit selection that would have been a bad, bad, bad idea anyway), we left it up to the player to develop his one handed weapon if they desire, or consider the shield a decorative element. We felt it was a fare trade (ie style for style).

 

And, a piece of BG1NPC trivia - I worked awhile to make the shield to have the insignia on the paperdoll/avatar as well as on the icons. Almost got there, but matching the colors/pattern proved too difficult unfortunately

 

Hope that answers the questioon about Kivan's spear and Ajantis shield exhaustively and demonstrates our logic in creating those items, and why we don't think they are neither inappropriate, nor overpowered.

[WizWom]

as far as it goes, I was thinking more on the lines of the blast-from-the-past girl at the bridge who attacks Kivan, and her stuff like elven chain & such. I didn't actually need to use Kivan's bow and spear - because by the time I got the box, I had the Long bow of Markmanship, a much better bow. But, hey, it's what it is. I don't like the characterizations, the romances or the items, and that's my perogative. I don't have to use 'em.You can't please evrybody all the time, and I recognize the effort that went into it, and the quality is quite good.

[Riviera]

I agree completely with berelinde.

 

In fact.. I really don't think I ever would have gotten back into playing the original Baldur's gate without the NPC Project.

 

It never really caught my interest the first few times I played it, completely unmodded.

 

This project just breathes so much life into that game.. it's amazing. The game itself had a good framework. It was a 'good house' so to speak.. it just needed a mod like this to provide nice furniture and throw rugs.

 

If I didn't sound totally... stupid with that analogy..

 

Thanks to all the people who worked on this, you guys did a great job.

 

I am *so* eagerly awaiting the BGT version!

[cmorgan]

Riviera, we are definitely making progress on the BGT side; Ascension64 and Sir BillyBob on the BGT side and CamDawg on the Tutu side are just having to do alot of hand-holding for me, as I am a Tutu-only dude. We still need some repairs to creature files, some cleaning up of what dialogues go to what files, and a thorough rebuild of some of the new special additions, but my hope is weeks not months.