Jump to content

Viconia knows Holy Smite


CamDawg

Recommended Posts

Why don't those that have a problem with fixpack bugfixes band together to make a mod to "unfix" them? It could be called the "BG2 Bug Restoration Pack", and feature components such as "Viconia still knows Holy Smite", "Jaheira still knows Zone of Sweet Air"; "Elves still don't get resistances to charm and sleep" etc. :mad: Seems like a more productive approach than just complaining that this or that isn't really a bugfix etc.

Link to comment

What I don't get is that if people are annoyed by the Fixpack fixing things that according to them aren't bugs, surely they should be up in arms over the new game content added by Baldurdash (i.e. the Twisted Rune related stuff)? BD also has quite a few other "non-fixes" of its own, especially in the Game Text Update.

Link to comment

I've stayed out of this whole debate up until this point. I don't particularly care if Viconia knows Holy Smite or if LG Anomen knows Unholy Blight (which I believe he does in my current ToB game, for some bizarre reason). It isn't important to me. If it's there, whatever. If not, whatever. I still love the game.

 

[rant]

But I *do* care about descriptions that do not describe what is going on *unless*, and this is a biggie, that was the plan the whole time. For me to believe that, I'd want to see something to that effect, like a comment in the code like /* let's mess with the players here */. OK, super-obvious example, but you get the idea.

 

With regards to Elven sleep/charm is one example. Elves are supposed to get resistances to sleep and charm spells. I think it says it on the character generation page, unless I'm completely mistaken (and that happens). They should get sleep and charm resistance. If a weapon description says it does +94 damage against trolls, I would expect them to die in 2 successful hits (one to bring them to 1 hp and let the killable troll fill in, one to kill the killable troll). Likewise, if I am using 'detect evil' inside the Order of the Most Radiant Heart, I do *not* expect to see everything on the screen glowing red.

[/rant]

 

Therefore, I like the G3 Fixpack.

Link to comment
What I don't get is that if people are annoyed by the Fixpack fixing things that according to them aren't bugs, surely they should be up in arms over the new game content added by Baldurdash (i.e. the Twisted Rune related stuff)? BD also has quite a few other "non-fixes" of its own, especially in the Game Text Update.

 

This is a rhetorical question, yes? By gaming standards, the final version of Baldurdash is positively ancient. Many people (I for one) probably wouldn't recognize in-game many of the non-fixes to which you refer - simply because Baldurdash was the "standard" for years.

 

I like the G3 Fixpack.

 

And so do I. :mad:

Link to comment
Many people (I for one) probably wouldn't recognize in-game many of the non-fixes to which you refer - simply because Baldurdash was the "standard" for years.

 

I have a suspcious feeling that if the Fixpack changes hadn't all been so clearly documented, few or even none of the things that have been objected to so far wouldn't have been recognised either. They are all pretty trivial details, really. (The using up keys-related stuff being the sole exception.)

 

EDIT: and yes, some people really need to learn that bugs aren't soley restricted to things that cause crashes to desktop, lock-up the computer, or simply don't work full stop :mad:.

Link to comment
I have a suspcious feeling that if the Fixpack changes hadn't all been so clearly documented, few or even none of the things that have been objected to so far wouldn't have been recognised either.
Perhaps you're right, though in that case you'd most likely instead have people coming here in a few months (or a year, or whatever) time saying that the fixpack isn't a "real" fixpack when they noticed that Jaheira couldn't cast ZoSA anymore. Etc.
Link to comment

On my Baldurdashed, Fixpacked install Viconia knows Holy Smite (and Unholy Blight) and the spell (SPPR313.SPL) has no exclusion flags set at 0x1E. It should have a value of 2 (bit 1 set to block evil priests). Meanwhile, Unholy Blight (SPPR314.SPL) does have a value of 4 (bit 2 set to block good priests).

 

Now, if I tell NI to ignore override files I get different results: Holy Smite is flagged as excluded from evil priests. Unholy Blight remains unchanged.

 

This leads me to believe that a previous fix, possibly Baldurdash* since it blindly overwrites files, replaced the SPPR313.SPL file and in the process cleared the exclusion flag. (I've stated before that I didn't feel like implementing spell fixes by the time I got to Baldurdash's spell fixes, so I copied Kevin's files straight across.)

 

Therefore I suggest having WeiDU at least check the flag's status and then fix it if necessary. Likewise for the CREs who have/shouldn't have the spell(s).

 

As to Viconia becoming Neutral in ToB, a script could give her the spell once that alignment shift took place, if it was deemed important enough.

 

Edit: *Baldurdash's "Holy Smite Permanent Blindness Fix" did it. Beige Tangerine either modified it or provided it from an earlier version of the game.

Edit2: cleared up Viconia; she knows both spells with or without Ignore Overrides enabled.

Edit3: VICONI9.CRE doesn't know Holy Smite, the rest do, and none of her CRE files has it memorized.

Link to comment
Now, if I tell NI to ignore override files I get different results: Holy Smite is flagged as excluded from evil priests. Unholy Blight remains unchanged.

Both are flagged as restricted on clean, patched installs (SoA and ToB).

 

As to Viconia becoming Neutral in ToB, a script could give her the spell once that alignment shift took place, if it was deemed important enough.

Divine spells added via script add experience, as if they were mage spells being learned. Once she turns neutral, she'll get it naturally at her next level-up.

Link to comment

Now, if I tell NI to ignore override files I get different results: Holy Smite is flagged as excluded from evil priests. Unholy Blight remains unchanged.

Both are flagged as restricted on clean, patched installs (SoA and ToB).

This is basically what I was saying. My point was that a Baldurdash fix (old style) is what changed Holy Smite to be unflagged, just so you know the cause of why it appears for some people.

Link to comment

My point is this: when I install Divine Remix, it's a significant change to the basic game ruleset. I know what I'm getting and I know it's a significant change closer to PnP rules and I want the change so I install it. In fact I have Divine remix installed and am enjoying the change of pace (although there seems to be a glitch with spells being wiped when npc's leave party), but I KNEW what I was getting and did it deliberately.

 

Fixpack is different in that it's not a ruleset mod or tweak to match PnP more closely or significantly alter the BG2 ruleset, which is NOT the same as PnP ruleset and was never meant to be exactly like the PnP rules; it's a crpg adaptation of 2ed PnP rules. People who want to play BG2 with the default rules, spells, etc but with bugs (spell effects that are contrary to spell descriptions ingame or elven charm resistance for example) fixed ought to be able to do just that. Someone who plays BG2 for the first time ever should, idealy, have such bugs fixed by a fixpack, but still be able to play the game fundamentally as it was designed by BW/BIS etc and not end up with an 'enhanced' heavily tweaked experience that they did not sign up for.

 

Changes that make very noticable alterations to rulesets, spell selection, etc that are NOT mentioned in the default game descriptions are departing from the realm of fixes/bugfixes to something beyond. Why make these kind of changes when there exists a mod like Divine remix that would fit the bill perfectly for this kind of a thing?

 

Let fixes be fixes, and tweaks be tweaks.

 

Next thing someone will suggest allowing thieves to be able to put 3 stars in dual wield like PnP for the fixpack-something I have installed with Avenger's apack rogue tweak and love-but it's not a fix, it's a tweak. The default BG2 ruleset does not allow theives to put 3 stars and this should not be 'fixed'.

Link to comment

Your point is noted, but incorrect. The default ruleset says that evil characters do not get Holy Smite. It also says that druids do not get Zone of Sweet Air. There is no ambiguity in the flags that indicate these restrictions. There's a big difference between changing of rulesets and the consistent application of the existing one, which is why Fixpack sticks strictly with the latter.

 

Unless you're arguing that spellbooks indicate Bio's rules for spells instead of the spell files themselves. Be careful with such an argument--not only do spellbooks vary wildly between creature files, it will put you in the very logically tenuous position of advocating Bioware meant for rangers to lack divine spellcasting, as both Minsc and Valygar lack any known and memorized spells in their creature files.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...