What happens if kitted Viconia changes alignment?

[Guest Guest]

I'd love to install this component but what would happen? I'm afraid the alignment change would fubar the kit. I'm guessing uninstalling the kit component for Viccy, once it's been installed at some point and she's been in the party, won't help.

[Gorilym]

Good question... Viconia changes to Chaotic Neutral, right? IIRC Nightcloaks could be CN in older versions of DR, (maybe as far back as Cleric Remix) but it's not listed as an option on the current Kit overview page. I wonder if this was a conscious change at some point, or if my memory is just wonky again?

 

edit: Nythrun replied before me. So Viconia changes to True Neutral? Just goes to show that it's been a while since I've actually played out that scenario.

[NiGHTMARE]

Even if Viconia changed to LG, her kit would still work just fine; an character changing to an alignment that is "invalid" for their kit won't cause anything adverse to happen. Heck, a paladin or ranger NPC can even change to an evil alignment and not fall - only the PC is affected in such a manner.

 

DR does make one difference for divine spellcaster NPCs who change alignment though, in that they may gain/lose access to good and evil spells.

[Guest Guest]

Seeing that a good part of the mod is about enhancing RP aspects of the game, it would be cool to have a feature someday that implements a new kit if she changes alignment. It's a huge change for her, and for someone of her background and story (which makes sense why she chose Shar) to have a major change of direction like changing to neutral alignment, I don't think Shar's characteristics and portfolio fit any more. It seems to me like she's really had a change of heart and sees things differently, and maybe even has inklings of hope that she's never had before- Shar is a deeply evil deity of loss and forgetfulness; my understanding is it's not the kind of forgetfulness like 'forget a difficult past and move on to a brighter future' but a gloomy, dark forgetting of things in bitterness and embracing darkness, loss, and gloom rather than light. It just doesn't seem like she'd stick with Shar after the change she goes through.

[CamDawg]

Good question... Viconia changes to Chaotic Neutral, right? IIRC Nightcloaks could be CN in older versions of DR, (maybe as far back as Cleric Remix) but it's not listed as an option on the current Kit overview page. I wonder if this was a conscious change at some point, or if my memory is just wonky again?

Nah, it's always been deity alignment plus one step removed, though there are a few exceptions--Kossuth and Oghma accept all, Cyric accepts any evil + CN.

 

I think the idea of a slightly different kit for her on the alignment change is interesting. The question, though: Shar grants Viconia her divine abilities. How Viconia chooses to wield those powers changes, sure, but why would she get anything substantially different from Shar because her alignment changes?

[Andyr]

Plus, Viconia changes from NE to TN.

[Guest Guest]

Good question... Viconia changes to Chaotic Neutral, right? IIRC Nightcloaks could be CN in older versions of DR, (maybe as far back as Cleric Remix) but it's not listed as an option on the current Kit overview page. I wonder if this was a conscious change at some point, or if my memory is just wonky again?

Nah, it's always been deity alignment plus one step removed, though there are a few exceptions--Kossuth and Oghma accept all, Cyric accepts any evil + CN.

 

I think the idea of a slightly different kit for her on the alignment change is interesting. The question, though: Shar grants Viconia her divine abilities. How Viconia chooses to wield those powers changes, sure, but why would she get anything substantially different from Shar because her alignment changes?

 

 

I always saw her change as significant enough eventually that continuing to be a Sharran wouldn't necessarily make sense, especially when you take the endstory she gets with the alignment change in view. I don't think the person Viconia becomes especially with that ending sounds like a Nightcloak of Shar. It's even fitting that there is a rather bittersweet end (don't want to give too much spoiler material away) that might make you wonder if Shar got a bit of revenge at the end as much as she could manage with a Viconia who'd forsaken Shar's ways.

[Guest Guest]

Good question... Viconia changes to Chaotic Neutral, right? IIRC Nightcloaks could be CN in older versions of DR, (maybe as far back as Cleric Remix) but it's not listed as an option on the current Kit overview page. I wonder if this was a conscious change at some point, or if my memory is just wonky again?

Nah, it's always been deity alignment plus one step removed, though there are a few exceptions--Kossuth and Oghma accept all, Cyric accepts any evil + CN.

 

I think the idea of a slightly different kit for her on the alignment change is interesting. The question, though: Shar grants Viconia her divine abilities. How Viconia chooses to wield those powers changes, sure, but why would she get anything substantially different from Shar because her alignment changes?

 

 

I always saw her change as significant enough eventually that continuing to be a Sharran wouldn't necessarily make sense, especially when you take the endstory she gets with the alignment change in view. I don't think the person Viconia becomes especially with that ending sounds like a Nightcloak of Shar. It's even fitting that there is a rather bittersweet end (don't want to give too much spoiler material away) that might make you wonder if Shar got a bit of revenge at the end as much as she could manage with a Viconia who'd forsaken Shar's ways.

 

 

*shrug*

 

PC: You really have changed, Viconia, I can tell. You've come a long ways from the dark, bitter, arrogant and angry person you were when we first met.

 

Viconia: Yes, I suppose I have changed. I've experienced much loss and darkness and dispair in my past, but after meeting you my life on the surface has hope...meaning... you've shown me there is more than just pain and loss and helped me to trust little by little. And I've gained, more and more I realize, gained much by being with you. Everything seems different now... and I'm sure our future together will hold more than just pain and loss.

 

PC: I'm happy for you, for us both. Btw, it's time for you to say your nightly ritual of prayers of loss and pain and forgetfulness again and rededicate yourself to one of the most evil and dark beings in the pantheon. Rememeber how serious the commitment is as a Nightcloak;you're not just a joe schmoe worshipper of Shar. Oh look, I see some Selunite priestesses across the street; you know what to do.

[CamDawg]

If Viconia stops venerating Shar, she stops receiving spells from her. Given that she's already forsaken one deity, what are the odds that another one will jump in, accept her as a worshipper, and start granting her powers? In time perhaps (read: far outside of ToB)--as she proves that her change of heart and worship is genuine.

 

I don't think stripping her of divine abilities at her alignment change would be a good (or popular) option.

[Guest Guest]

If Viconia stops venerating Shar, she stops receiving spells from her. Given that she's already forsaken one deity, what are the odds that another one will jump in, accept her as a worshipper, and start granting her powers? In time perhaps (read: far outside of ToB)--as she proves that her change of heart and worship is genuine.

 

I don't think stripping her of divine abilities at her alignment change would be a good (or popular) option.

 

 

Lol true. How about her losing her kit status (as an optional component since many might object to not having any choice about the matter, although again I really think RPwise it makes more sense) when she changes alignment, becoming a pureclass cleric? I think that would make the most sense; she wouldn't totally lose all her divine backed powers, hasn't totally rejected Shar yet, but she really wouldn't fit the role of a kit/specialist cleric as much as a general cleric of Shar RP wise.

[NiGHTMARE]

Shar doesn't really seem to care whether her followers are neutral or evil, just so long as they strive to follow her dogma and further her ambitions. She therefore actually has quite a few true neutral worshippers, and even has a sect of true neutral priests, the Darkcloaks.

 

Her portfolio (caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, and the Underdark) doesn't exactly scream "evil", and can an easily be adapted to a more neutral philosophy. In fact, emphasising the more beneficial aspects of Shar's portfolio (e.g. forgetfulness eases mental anguish such as grief and guilt) is how many non-evil people are seduced into worshipping the goddess by her clergy.

[Guest Guest]

Shar doesn't really seem to care whether her followers are neutral or evil, just so long as they strive to follow her dogma and further her ambitions. She therefore actually has quite a few true neutral worshippers, and even has a sect of true neutral priests, the Darkcloaks.

 

Her portfolio (caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, and the Underdark) doesn't exactly scream "evil", and can an easily be adapted to a more neutral philosophy. In fact, emphasising the more beneficial aspects of Shar's portfolio (e.g. forgetfulness eases mental anguish such as grief and guilt) is how many non-evil people are seduced into worshipping the goddess by her clergy.

 

Not to digress into a discussion about alignment in D&D, but I guess I always thought of her changing alignment as a pretty big change, whereas others seem to be of the thought it may be a more subtle change. ie I always looked at it as she 'turns over a new leaf', a fairly radical shift which would seem incompatible with still being a 'dedicated messenger/emmisary' etc of Shar - i.e. a Nightcloak, as opposed to a more generic cleric of Shar.

 

It'd be an interesting RP element I think if it can be done. It would result in the loss of some of her powers, which in itself presents interesting RP choices for the player as opposed to a pwergamer...