Reputation Modification in BG1 NPC

[Miloch]

I like the "malignant minstrel" idea for defamation - a fact echoed in history (a miserly king might often found himself the butt of bardic jests and slurs).

 

But if you can easily increase your reputation by donating to "good" temple priests, why not just have donations to "evil" temple priests that lower your reputation? Transfer a few thousand gold to the Church of Lolth and I bet Viconia will be *really* happy...

[jastey]

But if you can easily increase your reputation by donating to "good" temple priests, why not just have donations to "evil" temple priests that lower your reputation? Transfer a few thousand gold to the Church of Lolth and I bet Viconia will be *really* happy...

Although this makes a lot of sense, I fear rep increase due to donation in temples is hard coded. ?

[berelinde]

Anyone have any objections if I just translate the mod I downloaded from the German forum already? It will make it easier for someone to implement later.

[jastey]

If you mean my test-mod feel free to do so. But I think that for the purpose here it would need some more (if not a lot) tweaking to feel good.

[berelinde]

Yes, I opened it up for the first time, and I see that it will need a bit of work to look right. For one thing, it's going to need a store. Actually, no, it does *not* need a store, but it might be easier with one. Let me have a peek at the code, and I'll get back with some possibilitites.

[Miloch]

Although this makes a lot of sense, I fear rep increase due to donation in temples is hard coded. ?

Sure, I'm not suggesting you change that. I'm just suggesting the NPC could be an evil priest(ess) instead of a bard. There are several empty buildings that could serve as a dark temple or cult headquarters. Perhaps Ulcaster or the mines... anything practically would do. Such temples would likely be underground, either literally or figuratively (or both).

[cmorgan]

I didn't understand point 5, about the three existing in-game NPC Lake Poet Bards. I see you posted code while I was typing this post. Are these three added bards from BG1NPC that you would suggest to use for this?

Well, I had not understood that you had already fully created the Mr. X mini-mod, but yes! I am suggesting you adapt the code you used and with Kulyok and Domi each contributing the bare bones of the relevant dialogue we set up the Lake Poets as reoccurring "A Wandring Minstrel I , a Thing of Threads, and Patches" who can do exactly what you folks describe. Three minstrels, already named and created, tested, and ready to go, needing only one simple (but pretty comprehensive in terms of who is contributing - I *really* like the Viconia quote, and can just imagine some of the others reactions...) CHAIN, with two simple "forget it? ok, but I willbe here if you change your mind" or "yup, I will malign your name for a fee - gimme the gold" end states.

I can integrate and set up the area patching for both Tutu and BGT to have them available, one in each of the suggested inns, without there being continuity problems, or even have them spawn on the party and approach in certain areas the first time party reputation hits warning points for Neutral or Evil PCs;

after all, this is also historically accurate. Midaevil Trouveres and Troubadors served as newsgatherers, and some were historically employed to spread good or bad news on their travels (combination PR machine and information gathering resource, not unlike Fox News ).

I can see it now -- Don't want your population getting too uppity, but don't have the time/manpower/willingness/cash for a punitive expedition? Hire your travelling bard to do some trash-talk in a tavern, and suddenly your nice reputation as a "goody two shoes with a soft touch" comes crashing down to earth, and the malcontents go pale and start looking for dark corners to hide in. I just can't imagine how that story about the entire village of Easterners sacrificed to the Goddess got started... (I know, not FR, but forgive a little Vlad Taltos and Castle Black ).

[berelinde]

How should this be implemented? I favor the idea of a dark, vaguely sinister NPC approaching the PC at the FAI or elsewhere and asking for a quiet word about a matter that would be mutually beneficial. After the initial meeting, the NPC could just stand there, waiting for the PC to need him again.

 

More in a little while.

[jastey]

cmorgan: No, you understood correctly, I did not create the real minimod yet, all I did was creating a character I have to cheat in by CUAConsole, and give him simple dialogue saying "increase my rep by 1,2,3" and "decrease my rep by 1,2,3". This is no base for the minimod we are talking about, I merely "stole" the idea.

 

The idea to use existing cres sounds really appealing (in fact, every thing that saves me work sounds tremendously appealing, to be honest )

I am off to bed now (time zones - sigh), I'll see what you folks come up with and will make my own suggestions tomorrow.

[Tameon the Dragoon]

Sorry for hijacking the thread btw., Tameon.

 

No trouble at all; I've done some thread hijacking in my day, so I can't say anything. Besides, it was for a good cause!

[berelinde]

You know, it would give those darned Lake Poets something to do when no one has a quest going on.

[Miloch]

What I had in mind was a simple possibility to reduce the reputation by "buying" the reputation loss. The NPC(s) I imagined to be more of a thief appearance (assuming some dark connections), but bards sounds great, too, and makes a lot of sense. (Anti-bards, hehe ).

The dialogue would go something like:

NPC: Ah, I only heard good news about you.

PC: Yes, and that surely annoys me!

NPC: I could "help" you there...

Well how about a shady bard/thief-type *and* an evil temple? So the shifty bard approaches the PC in an inn, and for the right response, can clue the party some info that leads to the temple...

 

PC: What do you mean?

NPC: Well, I am a bard. I hear many rumors.

PC: You mean you *spread* many rumors?

NPC: Well that too, yes. But I couldn't just *spread* rumors of your "bad reputation" unless there were actually some basis to that. There is tale of a dark temple out in the hinterlands... home of such depraved rituals that cause even a seasoned minstrel such as I to shudder with horror.

PC: Where is this temple?

NPC: Ah. Well as to that, my cup has runneth empty too often of late. Perhaps you could spare a few coins for an impoverished bard? Say about five hundred coins?

 

And so on. Eventually the bard will give the location if bribed enough (if not - maybe he gives the *wrong* location and the party has to come back to harass him again). The cult could be in a recessed corner of a cave and will only "pop" after the bard's clue. Therein, the party has to complete some dark ritual, recover some evil artifact, become members of the cult and lose quite a bit of reputation based on what level they wish to rise (sink) in the "church."

 

Well, you did ask for ideas to turn this more from a mini-mod into a quest...

[berelinde]

Ultra-mini-mod sent to cmorgan for perusal.

 

What it is:

 

A dialog, written for an unscrupulous bard-type, that will allow the character to raise or lower his/her rep by 1, 2, or 3 points. This cost is based on the scale Domi posted. It works nothing like the temple prices, and the costs are a fair amount higher apparently exactly the same .

 

I didn't assign it a CRE or a script. But for 1.5 hours work, including cooking and serving dinner while I was trying to do it, it will do. Don't expect stellar dialog.

 

That's my contribution to the idea.

 

This is the early part of the dialog tree, before the player really long player response area, of which a person will only ever see "A little," "A moderate amount," or "A lot." After Reputio tells the player how much such a favor would cost, the player has the option of accepting or declining. Should the player have a reputation that would be ineligible for the entire -3 drop, as with a rep of 5, the player will have the option of settling for a lesser amount.

 

BEGIN REPUTIO

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0)~ THEN reput
SAY ~Excuse me. I believe I might be able to offer you a very valuable service.~
= ~I, young <SIRMAAM>, am Reputio, a bard of great renown, and my tales reach the ears of many all along the Sword Coast. For a token donation, I might be persuaded to tell any manner of tale about you.~
++ ~And how would that benefit me?~ + reput1
++ ~Why would you do this?~ + reput1
++ ~Whatever you're selling, I'm not buying. Get lost.~ + reput2
END

IF ~~ THEN reput1
SAY ~Can you really be so naive that you fail to see the beauty of this? I could tell any tale at all. I could praise your fearless and merciful deeds, and by this time next week, everyone would know about them, from the Dukes of Baldur's Gate to the halflings of Gullykin.~
= ~*Or,* I could whisper rumors of your ferocity and your fearsomeness, and you would find that people nigh unto the borders of Amn would quake at the thought of your passage.~
= ~As for *why* I should offer you this service, that, too should be obvious. It might be a pitance to you, but I like the money. Even so, I am no thief. I deliver what I promise.~
= ~Are you interested?~
++ ~Yes.~ + reput4
++ ~No.~ + reput2
END

IF ~~ THEN reput2
SAY ~Please yourself, but I will be here a while, yet, should you change your mind.~
IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

IF ~NumTimesTalkedToGT(0)~ THEN reput3
SAY ~Ah, so good to see you again! Would you like to avail yourself of my services as a public relations agent?~
++ ~Yes.~ + reput4
++ ~No.~ + reput2
END

IF ~~ THEN reput4
SAY ~A wise decision. Would you prefer to be revered or feared?~
++ ~I would like people to speak well of me.~ + reput5
++ ~I want to be feared.~ + reput6
END

IF ~~ THEN reput5
~And by how much? A little, a modest amount, or a dramatic improvement?~

[cmorgan]

OK, workspace is up: let's do this thing together. Template and materials up on the wikki at

 

http://dev.gibberlings3.net/index.php/Cate...on_Modification

 

Sign in and use your G3 password to access, just remember that anything you edit is what everyone has, so try to add and sign what you do.

 

berelinde, I will put your stuff up too -

 

so far, the basic plan is to try for a group "adjustment" of BG1 NPC, as an extension of the Lake Poets (unless Project people object, in which case we add it as a minimod expansion of BG1 NPC, or just add them in as a mod and set up code to not duplicate them if it is installed before BG1 NPC. Domi, Jastey, Kulyok, etc., if you can toss some rough dialogues around in the Wikki, we can have some fun! Miloch, if you want an evil priest type, it is perfectly doable using the same format, and the only additional work would be to create or modify a .cre. Get on there and write some dialogue, and we have plenty of folks to whip the code into shape.

 

Just to make thing interesting, we can set it up for both "good news" and "Bad News"... I always wondered why an evil character would go to a good temple and donate anyways. Kind of a bad idea - might tick off your evil god! On the other hand, it would be perfectly in character for an evil character to hire an effective PR person to increase his reputation - something I assume Sareavok did in the first place

 

ETA for a test version = this time next Monday. If we can't whip up a pretty darned cool addition together in that time on the wikki, we are just slackin'...

 

EDIT: just read bereinde's adjustment of Jastey's stuff... holy workingcode, Batman, that was fast. We can adapt this to LakePoet1, 2, and 3, plus an "evil" temple dude in little time. The only stuff really left outside of my arena (BAF and area script work) is NPC interjections, so cut & paste the CHAIN template to your heart's content, and we will rock all over this!

[berelinde]

An attempt at logging in to correct a link error produced the following error message:

 

Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/users/web/b248/ipw.gibberli/public_html/dev/includes/SpecialUserlogin.php on line 271

 

Here's the block I was trying to replace: I had forgotten to change the 5s to 6s in the last set.

 

IF ~~ THEN reput6

~And by how much? A little, a modest amount, or to a dramatic extent?~

+ ~Reputation(Player1,20)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a1

+ ~Reputation(Player1,19)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a2

+ ~Reputation(Player1,18)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a3

+ ~Reputation(Player1,17)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a4

+ ~Reputation(Player1,16)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a5

+ ~Reputation(Player1,15)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a6

+ ~Reputation(Player1,14)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a7

+ ~Reputation(Player1,13)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a8

+ ~Reputation(Player1,12)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a9

+ ~Reputation(Player1,11)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a10

+ ~Reputation(Player1,10)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a11

+ ~Reputation(Player1,9)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a12

+ ~Reputation(Player1,8)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a13

+ ~Reputation(Player1,7)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a14

+ ~Reputation(Player1,6)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a15

+ ~Reputation(Player1,5)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a16

+ ~Reputation(Player1,4)~ + ~A little.~ + reput6a17

+ ~ReputationGT(Player1,4)~ + ~A little.~ + reputNotPossible

+ ~Reputation(Player1,20)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b1

+ ~Reputation(Player1,19)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b2

+ ~Reputation(Player1,18)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b3

+ ~Reputation(Player1,17)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b4

+ ~Reputation(Player1,16)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b5

+ ~Reputation(Player1,15)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b6

+ ~Reputation(Player1,14)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b7

+ ~Reputation(Player1,13)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b8

+ ~Reputation(Player1,12)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b9

+ ~Reputation(Player1,11)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b10

+ ~Reputation(Player1,10)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b11

+ ~Reputation(Player1,9)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b12

+ ~Reputation(Player1,8)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b13

+ ~Reputation(Player1,7)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b14

+ ~Reputation(Player1,6)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b15

+ ~Reputation(Player1,5)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reput6b16

+ ~Reputation(Player1,4)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reputALittleWorse

+ ~ReputationGT(Player1,4)~ + ~A moderate amount.~ + reputNotPossible

+ ~Reputation(Player1,20)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c1

+ ~Reputation(Player1,19)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c2

+ ~Reputation(Player1,18)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c3

+ ~Reputation(Player1,17)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c4

+ ~Reputation(Player1,16)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c5

+ ~Reputation(Player1,15)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c6

+ ~Reputation(Player1,14)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c7

+ ~Reputation(Player1,13)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c8

+ ~Reputation(Player1,12)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c9

+ ~Reputation(Player1,11)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c10

+ ~Reputation(Player1,10)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c11

+ ~Reputation(Player1,9)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c12

+ ~Reputation(Player1,8)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c13

+ ~Reputation(Player1,7)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c14

+ ~Reputation(Player1,6)~ + ~A lot.~ + reput6c15

+ ~Reputation(Player1,5)~ + ~A lot.~ + reputModerateWorse

+ ~Reputation(Player1,4)~ + ~A lot.~ + reputALittleWorse

+ ~Reputation(Player1,4)~ + ~A lot.~ + reputNotPossible

END